[Karis]

Please feel free to continue the discuss on Occupy Sheffield here.

[onewheeldave]

Originally Posted by alchemist

I think what he wants is everyone to say they are sorry and that they now agree with all that he has said about occupy being welcome at the cathedral and that they are NOT attacking the church or its staff and that occupy is MASSIVELY popular and the camp is VERY pretty and full of protesters

No at all.

If anyone else does believe that there is a big problem with communication on this thread, then my offer stands.

I'm virtually 100% certain that, even if we do address the communication block, no-one's going to actually change their mind on the issues and, I see no need whatsoever for apologies.

I really am simply trying to establish some communication.

But, if everyone thinks that this thread has been productive, or that the anti & pro occupiers have been genuinely communicating with each other, then simply continue.

(last page of Part 1 of thread is here-

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/show...84970&page=291 )

[brianthedog]

Originally Posted by onewheeldave

No at all.

If anyone else does believe that there is a big problem with communication on this thread, then my offer stands.

I'm virtually 100% certain that, even if we do address the communication block, no-one's going to actually change their mind on the issues and, I see no need whatsoever for apologies.

I really am simply trying to establish some communication.

But, if everyone thinks that this thread has been productive, or that the anti & pro occupiers have been genuinely communicating with each other, then simply continue.

(last page of Part 1 of thread is here-

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/show...84970&page=291 )

Perhaps it is worthwhile taking this opportunity to reiterate what you want to achieve, and what you have done to date to achieve this?

[onewheeldave]

Originally Posted by brianthedog

Perhaps it is worthwhile taking this opportunity to reiterate what you want to achieve, and what you have done to date to achieve this?

I want to achieve the possibility of productive communication between the anti and pro occupiers.

In an attempt to achieve this, I've posted several ideas that I think could be used to bring that about.

(see last few pages of part 1 of the thread for details)

First though, people need to acknowldge that a communication block exists.

[brianthedog]

Sorry, to be clearer. The Occupy movement as a whole. Any points or changes they are trying to achieve have been obscured by the absurd choice of location. Hence, rather than dwelling on that perhaps focus on what the collective wants and how they are moving towards this.

[onewheeldave]

Originally Posted by brianthedog

Sorry, to be clearer. The Occupy movement as a whole. Any points or changes they are trying to achieve have been obscured by the absurd choice of location. Hence, rather than dwelling on that perhaps focus on what the collective wants and how they are moving towards this.

You'd be better off asking an actual occupier on that one.

Although, if you've got the time, reading through parts of part 1 would be useful as it's obviously been covered there, though, like I'm saying above, IMO, there's been very little productive communication. But, it will give you a good idea of what the occupiers have said and the responses of the anti occupiers.

[brianthedog]

Originally Posted by onewheeldave

You'd be better off asking an actual occupier on that one.

Although, if you've got the time, reading through parts of part 1 would be useful as it's obviously been covered there, though, like I'm saying above, IMO, there's been very little productive communication. But, it will give you a good idea of what the occupiers have said and the responses of the anti occupiers.

You wholeheartedly support them yet can't give a summary of what they want to achieve? I'm sure buried in part one there is an explanation but I thought a summary on page one of this thread may be beneficial for all forum users.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by onewheeldave

First though, people need to acknowldge that a communication block exists.

Everyone has agreed. It's just that you're the only one who thinks that it's everyone else.

I agree with brianthedog, a summary of Occupy Sheffield's objectives would be useful on this first page.

[harvey19]

Originally Posted by onewheeldave

You'd be better off asking an actual occupier on that one.
.

Dave the communication problem arises because there is no accountable, responsible, identified member of Occupy debating regularly and giving definative answers to the questions asked.
I do not considers most posters to be anti but frustrated at Occupys tactics and see them damaging their own cause by stubborness and lack of a practical agenda for change and implementation plan.
Even with your best efforts fighting their cause the question hangs that if you believe in the cause so passionately why aren't you a member of the organisation ?
As an outsider are you qualified to represent their true views and agenda ?

[onewheeldave]

Originally Posted by Tony

Everyone has agreed. It's just that you're the only one who thinks that it's everyone else.

You're actually the first person, other than myself, to acknowledge that a communication block exists on this thread (unless I've missed something).

Are you interested in overcoming that block?

[onewheeldave]

Originally Posted by harvey19

Dave the communication problem arises because there is no accountable, responsible, identified member of Occupy debating regularly and giving definative answers to the questions asked.
I do not considers most posters to be anti but frustrated at Occupys tactics and see them damaging their own cause by stubborness and lack of a practical agenda for change and implementation plan.
Even with your best efforts fighting their cause the question hangs that if you believe in the cause so passionately why aren't you a member of the organisation ?
As an outsider are you qualified to represent their true views and agenda ?

The communication block I'm referring to, is soley between the posters on this thread.

No, I'm no longer interested in summarising Occupy's stance or getting involved in discussing any of those issues- I'm interested only in dealing with the block in communication that has, IMO, crippled progress in this thread.

If fruitful communication is acheived, then I'll consider getting involved in the pro/anti occupation debate again.

If it isn't, then obviously, you're all free to continue discussing exactly what you wish to, but without me, as I firmly believe that discussion without communication will be as circular as it has been througout part 1.

[growup]

Originally Posted by onewheeldave

You're actually the first person, other than myself, to acknowledge that a communication block exists on this thread (unless I've missed something).

Are you interested in overcoming that block?

without using the actually phrase 'communication block' several people have admitted it exists. Maybe the problem is you haven't read or understood peoples' posts (which is a problem across this forum not just with you, I don't always understand people).

[onewheeldave]

Originally Posted by growup

without using the actually phrase 'communication block' several people have admitted it exists. Maybe the problem is you haven't read or understood peoples' posts (which is a problem across this forum not just with you, I don't always understand people).

OK.

Are you and Tony then, keen on attempting to resolve that block?

I'm going offline now, but will probably be back later on this afternoon/evening- if you 2, and perhaps others, are willing, I'll be happy to work with you all in focusing on removing the block.

I must emphasise you, that that is my only interest at the moment, I absolutely will not get pulled into discussing the pro/anti occupation issues until we've established a solid base of productive communication.

We all agree listening is important, both sides feel that the other has been guilty of not listening?

Can I propose then, as a first step, that we forget/put aside any instances of past 'not listening' and resolve, from this point on, to all focus on listening, and, make sure we point out any clear examples of not listening, regardless of which side the guilty person is on?

[harvey19]

Originally Posted by onewheeldave

The communication block I'm referring to, is soley between the posters on this thread.

No, I'm no longer interested in summarising Occupy's stance or getting involved in discussing any of those issues- I'm interested only in dealing with the block in communication that has, IMO, crippled progress in this thread.

If fruitful communication is acheived, then I'll consider getting involved in the pro/anti occupation debate again.

If it isn't, then obviously, you're all free to continue discussing exactly what you wish to, but without me, as I firmly believe that discussion without communication will be as circular as it has been througout part 1.

Basicaly the thread will be,
Q Why is occupy outside the Cathedral ?
A It is in sight of the banks.
Q The Cathedral doesn't want you there.
A We don't care.
Q When are you leaving ?
A Not going to tell you.

[dosxuk]

Originally Posted by harvey19

Basicaly the thread will be,
Q Why is occupy outside the Cathedral ?
A It is in sight of the banks.

Q That's not listed as one of the reasons to be there on your own minutes?
A I'm not a spokesman for the group.

[brianthedog]

Originally Posted by onewheeldave

The communication block I'm referring to, is soley between the posters on this thread.

No, I'm no longer interested in summarising Occupy's stance or getting involved in discussing any of those issues- I'm interested only in dealing with the block in communication that has, IMO, crippled progress in this thread.

If fruitful communication is acheived, then I'll consider getting involved in the pro/anti occupation debate again.

If it isn't, then obviously, you're all free to continue discussing exactly what you wish to, but without me, as I firmly believe that discussion without communication will be as circular as it has been througout part 1.

Which would be after page one, thus making this thread confusing. It shouldn't be difficult to summarise and may assist in discussion rather than argument.

Steadfastly refusing to enter into discussion will not aid in stopping a communication block, will it?

[tinfoilhat]

Originally Posted by onewheeldave

The communication block I'm referring to, is soley between the posters on this thread.

No, I'm no longer interested in summarising Occupy's stance or getting involved in discussing any of those issues- I'm interested only in dealing with the block in communication that has, IMO, crippled progress in this thread.

If fruitful communication is acheived, then I'll consider getting involved in the pro/anti occupation debate again.

If it isn't, then obviously, you're all free to continue discussing exactly what you wish to, but without me, as I firmly believe that discussion without communication will be as circular as it has been througout part 1.

Blimey dave you are in the wrong job. Some have said "let's leave the cathedral out of it and focus on the issues". A couple of months of ga on it's not unreasonable to ask what the current view from occupy sheffield is. Slot can change in that time, certainly any small business can so it's again its not unreasonable to think something could be achieved.

But no. We're straight back to the "nowt to do with me" stance, no doubt followed by the "drag yourself to the camp" stance. Here's a thought try to find, and lord knows it will be a massive ask, SOMEONE who can come on this thread once a week who will say "I represent occupy Sheffield". Set some ground rules. No talking about the site itself but specific issues that occupy want. Failing that were just wasting each others time.

[Penistone999]

Originally Posted by onewheeldave

The communication block I'm referring to, is soley between the posters on this thread.

No, I'm no longer interested in summarising Occupy's stance or getting involved in discussing any of those issues- I'm interested only in dealing with the block in communication that has, IMO, crippled progress in this thread.

If fruitful communication is acheived, then I'll consider getting involved in the pro/anti occupation debate again.

If it isn't, then obviously, you're all free to continue discussing exactly what you wish to, but without me, as I firmly believe that discussion without communication will be as circular as it has been througout part 1.

Many of us anti OS posters have frequently asked questions about the OS tactics and objectives ,yet the only only response we get from pro OS posters like yourself is to attack the cathedral at every turn .

The OS comes across as very arrogant .

[alchemist]

For a group that claim to want a fairer society for everyone , OS have adopted a policy of abusing and attacking an organization that does vast amounts of charity work ,and raises thousands of pounds for the needy in society. IE, the Cathedral . Quite why OS have taken this stance , ive no idea ,but they have shot themselves in the foot big time ,and cant expect any symphay from the public in sheffield .

They say their issues are with banks and multi national capitalist companies ,yet they havnt taken their protest to those companies . Instead they chose a soft target in the cathedral .This will all be over very soon when they are removed by force ,and all they will have achieved is alienating the people of sheffield .

There was a poster on this thread a couple of days ago ( cant remember their username ), but they said at the start of this they were very pro OS, but have now become very anti OS due to the continued attack and abuse aimed at the cathedral and the Dean.

___________________________________________


Bearing in mind the strong diversity of those in the occupy fraternity I am beginning to think that there is a significant proportion of the protesters who DO have an anti-cathedral agenda and can't be bothered about other things that occupy are into

[andygardener]

Originally Posted by onewheeldave

I want to achieve the possibility of productive communication between the anti and pro occupiers.

In an attempt to achieve this, I've posted several ideas that I think could be used to bring that about.

(see last few pages of part 1 of the thread for details)

First though, people need to acknowldge that a communication block exists.

Dave, as far as I can see it the communication problem is a lack of communication from OSC. I know you're not part of the camp but you do attend it so maybe you couyld encourage members of OSC to come on here and debate the issues?

Unfortunately as has been pointed out those who have come here before from OSC either post links to their latest puff piece then disappear without debate or take a line of "i can't speak for the camp" which as the Dean has pointed out makes constructive debate very hard.

Unless OSC start to take responsibility for themselves and address themselves to the damage they are doing to both the Cathedral and their own reputations this whole sorry saga is going to windf up ending badly for them. If they continue to flout the wishes of the Cathedral they will end up being physically evicted, however as that point approaches in their current disorganised form that the handfull of no doubt well meaning actual "occupiers" will find themselves overwhelmed by proffesional agitators turning up for any excuse for a ruck with the police and that will be the lasting image of Occupy Sheffield Cathedral.

Time for OSC to stop hiding behind anonimity and start dealing with reality.