[Shef_Fitness]

I can hear the cry already “what about injuries and who can we sue if someone gets hurt?”

Yet again another stabbing in our midst in Sheffield and the problem is getting worse. Petty crime is one the up, however as most people know even if you are personally not a victim of crime (someone else on your street is), be it a brick through your car windscreen, or your number plates being stolen, then that crime affects everyone in that area. People are affected as their car insurance goes through the roof, and once respectable neighbourhoods are becoming no go areas for many people.

We have a health and safety everywhere, playing conkers is banned, kids get sent home from school when it snows and your local sports coach cannot afford to get past the never ending costs of child protection and insurance. With all this safety, are kids happier and gentler than kids in the 1970/1980s when rough sports thrived? It seems not, although sports are in decline, thanks to liberalism, kids can drink themselves to a merry state, and kids in their teens now have more access to drugs than the kids of the 1980s ever had. Kids also have Facebook, PlayStations and can access the world without leaving their bedrooms.

Has the time come for ex-sportspeople to simply disregard health and safety and set up clubs in halls or in the case of a football/rugby coach on a local field?

If the health and safety was disregarded, it would greatly reduce costs to the coach, and then drive down the costs to train for the participants. This would make the sportsclub more affordable and more likely to thrive.

This would be a risky thing to do, as the likelihood of injuries would increase. Is it not possible for a sports coach to write up a disclaimer? Surely if you were to take part in football its clear there is a risk that you could suffer an injury such as a broken leg through a tackle.

We could continue down the path that we have now, however things are only going to get worse. Despite all the health and safety, kids are not becoming more gentle and our insurance premiums will continue go up to pay for crime, or some areas will become blacklisted for insurance.

Sports are good as they bring kids together to work as a team/or be part of a group, kids run off that excess energy, kids will need to eat more healthily to do a sport if it is a physical sport and so they will take greater care of themselves/diet. Best of all, it has to be more fun than being alone of Facebook or surfing the internet.

So what are your thoughts on ex-sportspeople simply setting up in your area, are they a help to your community or do you see them as an irresponsible menace?

What about any ex-sportspeople, have you thought about passing on your skills to the next generation and would you be prepared to set up and disregard health and safety? Do you fear the compensation culture/being sued or would you take the risk and see how things go?

[mike84]

Health and Safety legislation does not stop anyone doing anything. What it does do it make sure that consideration of risks it taken and where possible the risk reduced. If anyone uses H&S legislation to stop something taking place then they dont understand the legislation.

Legislation shouldn't be disregarded, but people should learn how to use it to their advantage and to make sure that things can carry on happening.

[Bethie]

Honestly? I'm a freelance horse riding instructor/coach and I would not be willing to take the risk of coaching without insurance. I am running a business - I expect people to pay me to teach them and every business has overheads to take into account. Accidents happen, sometimes we (coaches) make mistakes - we are human, insurance is there to pick up the pieces. I know people in my field who do operate without insurance and charge very little for lessons as they don't have to factor in business costs, it generally goes hand in hand with being unqualified and/or inexperienced and other corner cutting exercises. They are also the people most likely to cause accidents but then they shirk any responsibility for the issues they have caused for their clients.

Taking a child protection course cost me about £30, hardly extortionate, and many sports are covered by the insurance provided as part of a membership benefit of Sports Coach UK, the umbrella body for all UK sports coaching (horse riding is an exclusion to the policy so I have to pay more elsewhere!), which costs £85 per year. I don't think that's too high a price to pay for piece of mind both for yourself as a coach and for your clients.

I used to work in the legal sector, often on personal injury claims, and seeing how people with real injuries, not those that try it on, are struggling to continue with any semblance of what we would consider an ordinary life really brings it home to you how life can change in an instant and the state is not there to pick up the pieces, but insurance companies can be.

[go4it]

Originally Posted by Shef_Fitness

I can hear the cry already “what about injuries and who can we sue if someone gets hurt?”

Yet again another stabbing in our midst in Sheffield and the problem is getting worse. Petty crime is one the up, however as most people know even if you are personally not a victim of crime (someone else on your street is), be it a brick through your car windscreen, or your number plates being stolen, then that crime affects everyone in that area. People are affected as their car insurance goes through the roof, and once respectable neighbourhoods are becoming no go areas for many people.

We have a health and safety everywhere, playing conkers is banned, kids get sent home from school when it snows and your local sports coach cannot afford to get past the never ending costs of child protection and insurance. With all this safety, are kids happier and gentler than kids in the 1970/1980s when rough sports thrived? It seems not, although sports are in decline, thanks to liberalism, kids can drink themselves to a merry state, and kids in their teens now have more access to drugs than the kids of the 1980s ever had. Kids also have Facebook, PlayStations and can access the world without leaving their bedrooms.

Has the time come for ex-sportspeople to simply disregard health and safety and set up clubs in halls or in the case of a football/rugby coach on a local field?

If the health and safety was disregarded, it would greatly reduce costs to the coach, and then drive down the costs to train for the participants. This would make the sportsclub more affordable and more likely to thrive.

This would be a risky thing to do, as the likelihood of injuries would increase. Is it not possible for a sports coach to write up a disclaimer? Surely if you were to take part in football its clear there is a risk that you could suffer an injury such as a broken leg through a tackle.

We could continue down the path that we have now, however things are only going to get worse. Despite all the health and safety, kids are not becoming more gentle and our insurance premiums will continue go up to pay for crime, or some areas will become blacklisted for insurance.

Sports are good as they bring kids together to work as a team/or be part of a group, kids run off that excess energy, kids will need to eat more healthily to do a sport if it is a physical sport and so they will take greater care of themselves/diet. Best of all, it has to be more fun than being alone of Facebook or surfing the internet.

So what are your thoughts on ex-sportspeople simply setting up in your area, are they a help to your community or do you see them as an irresponsible menace?

What about any ex-sportspeople, have you thought about passing on your skills to the next generation and would you be prepared to set up and disregard health and safety? Do you fear the compensation culture/being sued or would you take the risk and see how things go?

I don't think and health and safety is the problem. In the south / south-west of Sheffield there are many clubs, run by many volunteers. Some are free, some have a small charge. The bottom line is that there are people there to run them. In other areas of Sheffield there is just not the people there willing to run clubs.

Now I'm not saying that there aren't clubs in some areas of Sheffield - there are. But it is mainly football and a few other random clubs. Plus in these areas of Sheffield it isn't the norm to join a club. This is where you see Activity Sheffield having to go into parks to set up activities for kids. I think money is a factor as well. £4/5 for a club visit is seen as a lot for some people, but they don't see it as an investment in their children.

[Shef_Fitness]

Originally Posted by go4it

I don't think and health and safety is the problem. In the south / south-west of Sheffield there are many clubs, run by many volunteers. Some are free, some have a small charge. The bottom line is that there are people there to run them. In other areas of Sheffield there is just not the people there willing to run clubs.

Now I'm not saying that there aren't clubs in some areas of Sheffield - there are. But it is mainly football and a few other random clubs. Plus in these areas of Sheffield it isn't the norm to join a club. This is where you see Activity Sheffield having to go into parks to set up activities for kids. I think money is a factor as well. £4/5 for a club visit is seen as a lot for some people, but they don't see it as an investment in their children.

I do accept that in some parts of the city (areas that you mentioned) clubs are thriving, however in the areas where the worst crime is happening, little happens.

With regards injuries, surely as these not part of the risk? I took part in compentitions myself and suffered injuries, and sometimes injured other people - but it was a contact sport I did. Can people not make judgements for themselves on if a sport is dangerous?

In the case of Horse Riding as mentioned above, I guess there is always the risk that the horse may get the hump and throw you off its back at any given time. Surely though, its better to get out there and do something, run the risk of an injury (which is rare in all honestly) than not to have a go at something?

[fake]

If you disregard H&S and you would find you will be closed down and possibly prosecuted, and rightly so as its law.

[Shef_Fitness]

Originally Posted by fake

If you disregard H&S and you would find you will be closed down and possibly prosecuted, and rightly so as its law.

So you prefer the way our society is going ?

[JFKvsNixon]

Originally Posted by Shef_Fitness

So you prefer the way our society is going ?

Some of my friends died because their sports instructor ignored health and safety rules. They are there for a reason, just because you cannot recognise the reason doesn't mean that they're not needed.

[shinyhappy68]

I'm not sure I agree with no H&S in place but I agree that kids can't do anything without being Molly coddled. Primary school sports day is one example, they all participate in activities, they don't compete anymore, so no one looses?? A senior learning mentor from comprehensive school, who is a very active sportsman in his spare time, said to me. " by then time kids come to us, they have no competitive egde, and trying to encourage competition against other schools, could be a struggle at times". Sad.

[SiSiSi]

Originally Posted by shinyhappy68

I'm not sure I agree with no H&S in place but I agree that kids can't do anything without being Molly coddled. Primary school sports day is one example, they all participate in activities, they don't compete anymore, so no one looses?? A senior learning mentor from comprehensive school, who is a very active sportsman in his spare time, said to me. " by then time kids come to us, they have no competitive egde, and trying to encourage competition against other schools, could be a struggle at times". Sad.

Hold on a minute! On another thread you are complaining about the amount of physical abuse that takes place in schools, yet on this one you complain about kids being mollycoddled.

[shinyhappy68]

Originally Posted by SiSiSi

Hold on a minute! On another thread you are complaining about the amount of physical abuse that takes place in schools, yet on this one you complain about kids being mollycoddled.

Stop stalking me and get a life

[SiSiSi]

Originally Posted by shinyhappy68

Stop stalking me and get a life

[andyofborg]

Originally Posted by SiSiSi

Hold on a minute! On another thread you are complaining about the amount of physical abuse that takes place in schools, yet on this one you complain about kids being mollycoddled.

one person's mollycoddling is another's physical abuse

[HeadingNorth]

Originally Posted by Shef_Fitness

I do accept that in some parts of the city (areas that you mentioned) clubs are thriving, however in the areas where the worst crime is happening, little happens.

With regards injuries, surely as these not part of the risk?

For contact sports, certainly; the H&S legislation is there to make sure that you're not exposing people to unnecessary and frivolous risks. For instance, if you're running a boxing club, that you actually have medical kit on hand in case someone gets cut, and that you're not letting people slip lead into the boxing gloves or something equally silly.

Your insurance, on the other hand, has to cover the costs you might incur if somebody sues you - and it's expensive to get sued, even if it is a frivolous lawsuit that you know in advance you are certain to win.

[dosxuk]

Health & Safety Legislation has banned virtually nothing. It does however require people to understand what they are about to do, and how to go about it in the safest manner possible, and to allow prosecution when things aren't done correctly.

If you want to fire someone out of a cannon at a flaming brick wall which is being demolished by a tank into a tank full of sharks and electric eels, you can do so under H&S Law, provided you fully risk assess the plan, and ensure it is done safely.

99.99999% of stories which start "H&S laws have banned..." are lies.

[Shef_Fitness]

dosxuk

I do believe it has been the major stumbling block for ex sports people be it ex-footballers, or ex-boxers or ex-whatever to pass on their skills to the next generation, the fear of being sued.

I personally would rather have an uninsured ex-footballer passing on his skills to kids in my local park, than the local drunks or the chavs bombing around on motorbikes/quadbikes.

When I take young relatives for a game of football at the local park I'm forever having to be careful of broken beer bottles in the grass or even used condoms. If the locals took back the parks, the drunks would clear off.

At the end of the day, bored kids + petty vandalism = higher insurance premiums/your local area becoming a no go area.

[dosxuk]

Insurance has nothing to do with H&S law. However, rather than talk about increased premiums, or to carry out a proper risk assesment, it's often easier to just blame the nameless, faceless H&S officers.

There's nothing to stop (and certainly not H&S Law) a footballer from running classes without insurance. However, when little Johnny breaks a toe, there's nothing to stop him getting sued by Johnny's parents. HSE would only get involved if they thought the Footballer had neglected to accurately assess the activity and done something to reduce the safety of the participants.

As long as the amulance chasers and "no win no fee" lawyers are around, this sort of free community activity will always be risky for the organisers. It's this that needs changing, not H&S laws.

[Shef_Fitness]

Originally Posted by dosxuk

Insurance has nothing to do with H&S law. However, rather than talk about increased premiums, or to carry out a proper risk assesment, it's often easier to just blame the nameless, faceless H&S officers.

There's nothing to stop (and certainly not H&S Law) a footballer from running classes without insurance. However, when little Johnny breaks a toe, there's nothing to stop him getting sued by Johnny's parents. HSE would only get involved if they thought the Footballer had neglected to accurately assess the activity and done something to reduce the safety of the participants.

As long as the amulance chasers and "no win no fee" lawyers are around, this sort of free community activity will always be risky for the organisers. It's this that needs changing, not H&S laws.

I completely agree with your 2nd paragraph.

How could someone possible sue the football coach as a result of an injury caused by a sliding tackle from an opposing player? or a game of rounders, when the ball accidently hits one of the fielders on the nose causing a nosebleed? its simply absurd.

Unless people get off there bottoms and organise activities, the quality of life is going to get worse.

[go4it]

Originally Posted by Shef_Fitness

I completely agree with your 2nd paragraph.

How could someone possible sue the football coach as a result of an injury caused by a sliding tackle from an opposing player? or a game of rounders, when the ball accidently hits one of the fielders on the nose causing a nosebleed? its simply absurd.

Unless people get off there bottoms and organise activities, the quality of life is going to get worse.

I mentioned the North - South split - it all comes down to parental support.

Kids in the south of Sheffield tend to have parents who will take them to activities, pay their membership fees / subs, spend time taking an interest in them. Kids in the North of Sheffield tend to have parents who don't care or have no clue about activities in their area.

I think health and safety is important - but there must be a guideline to parents which states that any sport carries risk and whilst the coach will minimise the risk, they cannot be blamed for any injuries that occur. Again families in the South accept this, whilst those in the North will run straight to Claims Direct.

A generalisation I know - not all families in the North are like that.

[go4it]

Originally Posted by shinyhappy68

I'm not sure I agree with no H&S in place but I agree that kids can't do anything without being Molly coddled. Primary school sports day is one example, they all participate in activities, they don't compete anymore, so no one looses?? A senior learning mentor from comprehensive school, who is a very active sportsman in his spare time, said to me. " by then time kids come to us, they have no competitive egde, and trying to encourage competition against other schools, could be a struggle at times". Sad.

And consider that the sports day is probably the only thing close to competition some kids get.

Bad sports provision in schools, couple with bad sports provision in the community = the nightmare estates we see today in Sheffield.