Rat help needed

tetchy_raffl · 13-06-2011, 19:44

Hi all, I'm seeking some advice for my lone boy, The Captain. He's approx 20 months old male rat with a gorgeous temperament and very tame. Up until recently he lived with his brother, Mr Ferguson, who we sadly had to have put to sleep a week ago. I'm thinking now about getting The Captain a companion, as he's not used to being on his own and I don't want him to be lonely.*

What would forummers recommend as the best aged rat to introduce to him to? And hows best to introduce them. He lives in a good sized cage so could well fit up to two more boys in there if needed. These are the first rats I've owned so don't have much experience of this myself, so any help would be much appreciated.

Miss Lounty · 13-06-2011, 19:52

i think introducing 2 or even 1 new male into his territory could be risky, l can see fights happening. When the same thing happened to us (we had 2 sets of 2 male rats in different cages) we put the cages next to each other and the lone rat seemed quite happy. Lots of meeting at the bars and sniffing, but no violence! Good luck!!

tetchy_raffl · 13-06-2011, 20:06

We do have a third rat who we rescued, with the intention of gradually introducing him to the two boys. He has always been aggressive towards them though, no matter how carefully we tried (neutral territory, masking their scent with vanilla essence etc). These meetings always seemed to leave the Captain very stressed and sometimes bitten, so I have always been reluctant to try them together again. And so now they are both alone in separate cages. Obviously though it would be ideal if they could both get on then they would both have company. Could castrating the aggressor be the answer? Would it majorly change his temperament for the calmer?

They both get lots of fuss, time and attention individually. What I am worried about happening is if I did try and introduce another one or two males as unsuccessfully I would end up with three separate cages. I would struggle to give them all the time they deserved.

Elizabeth13 · 13-06-2011, 21:41

The best bet for your lonely male to have some ratty friends is by getting two babies.
Babies are easy to introduce, as they are babies and are less likely to be attacked by an adult because they smell like babies. Two is best recommend, as sometimes the older rat doesn't want to play and the babies can then play together and let the older sleep or chill out (instead of one baby alone pestering the adult constantly as there is no one else to play with).

Rats are very social, as you will know, and intros with adults are not always easy, but time and persistence usually pays off. Of course, some rats simply wont get on (especially if one rat has always been alone and has not been able to socialise), but the majority will get on if you are stubborn and have a LOT of patience

A lot of people panic and worry with introductions, with all the rolling about and squeaking, but most of it is just determining who is going to be boss - something that must happen. The rule of thumb usually is no blood no fowl, so unless the rats are attacking and drawing blood and trying to kill each other then, then you usually just need to bite your tongue and grit your teeth through any squabbles.

hels1977 · 14-06-2011, 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Lounty

i think introducing 2 or even 1 new male into his territory could be risky, l can see fights happening. When the same thing happened to us (we had 2 sets of 2 male rats in different cages) we put the cages next to each other and the lone rat seemed quite happy. Lots of meeting at the bars and sniffing, but no violence! Good luck!!

Not really, there are some ground rules to follow which usually lead to smooth introductions. Firstly, I would consider getting 2 babies, simply because they can bounce off each other if the Captain wants to sleep and 3 is a nice number

For intros, pop them all in a neutral place (like the sofa) and let them have a sniff and romp. They will fight, they will box and they will be drama queens about it but I tend to follow the no blood no foul rule. That is unless someone actually gets hurt, let them sort out the pecking order, otherwise they will just do it when you're not there! This is another reason babies are a good idea, they are likely to not want to challenge The Captain for his supremacy and will be happy to just slot in.

When you pop them altogether in the cage, make sure you've given it a good clean out and given fresh everything like toys, hammocks etc. See how you get on, if you need to separate then don't give up, just give it 24 hours and try again. There are lots of beautiful rats in rescue as well as from breeders to please do try and avoid pet shops. 'Lillyland' on here rescues and breeds (not from the same rats I might add) so she may well be able to point you in a good direction and give you some more advice.

Best of luck with it all and I'm sure Captain will appreciate you looking out for him and giving him a friend or two to snuggle up with!

hels1977 · 14-06-2011, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetchy_raffl

We do have a third rat who we rescued, with the intention of gradually introducing him to the two boys. He has always been aggressive towards them though, no matter how carefully we tried (neutral territory, masking their scent with vanilla essence etc). These meetings always seemed to leave the Captain very stressed and sometimes bitten, so I have always been reluctant to try them together again. And so now they are both alone in separate cages. Obviously though it would be ideal if they could both get on then they would both have company. Could castrating the aggressor be the answer? Would it majorly change his temperament for the calmer?

They both get lots of fuss, time and attention individually. What I am worried about happening is if I did try and introduce another one or two males as unsuccessfully I would end up with three separate cages. I would struggle to give them all the time they deserved.

I would speak to Lillyland about this one - she is pretty good at "bonding" rats that are being stroppy. It may be that they just hate each other, however sometimes it's too stressful to watch so a 3rd party might be just the ticket!

Elizabeth13 · 14-06-2011, 11:55

When introducing any babies to an adult in a cage, it is best to do it firstly with an empty cage. Introducing a new cage to new cagemates with accessories like hammocks, sputniks etc. can cause hiding and defending toys. It's best to leave it as empty as possible first so they are forced to bond well. Also, with babies it is best that way for YOU as you will want to tame them and get them trusting you, and its much harder if you give the babies places to hide.

tetchy_raffl · 14-06-2011, 12:28

Thanks for the advice everyone. It looks like two babies may be the way to go (I'm secretly thrilled since it means I can have two more boys in my group)

Raymond, the agressive one, is calming down a bit, he has been on his own from before we got him and was a bit bitey with us at the start but has become a soppy little thing over the past few months. Hopefully if he gets out of his grumpy teenagehood he may be able to be introduced again and at least have some play time out with the others, although I would keep him in his own cage since that's his home and he defends it to the end (although I'm fairly sure he sees the entire house as "his"!)

Lotti · 14-06-2011, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth13

When introducing any babies to an adult in a cage, it is best to do it firstly with an empty cage. Introducing a new cage to new cagemates with accessories like hammocks, sputniks etc. can cause hiding and defending toys. It's best to leave it as empty as possible first so they are forced to bond well. Also, with babies it is best that way for YOU as you will want to tame them and get them trusting you, and its much harder if you give the babies places to hide.

My babies have always had hammocks... I just make sure they have been cleaned before introductions. My babies came out of the hammocks to see me!!

I suppose it depends who you get them from - all of the people who took my babies can't get over how confident and outgoing they are.

I would, as Hels recommends allow them all to meet on neutral territory and then transfer to a very small cage (way too small to keep rats in) or a travel box (all of mine get introduced in the travel carrier) as there's no room to get away from each other and if they do start to get too rough you can pick up the carrier to disrupt them and they'll settle down.

That said, once they've settled together, they obviously need to be in a bigger place so as not to pee each other off by being on top of each other!

Lillyland has babies at the moment

And I'm sure it'd be ok to take the Captain over to meet them there so she can help you bond them. As Hels says, she may be able to help with the other adult too. Is he very old? If not have you considered castrating him to see if he'll get on with the other boy? If it still doesn't work, he may be better with females and, having been castrated he'd be fine to go in with them.

Lillyland's website is here: http://lilliput-rattery.webs.com/

Lotti · 14-06-2011, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetchy_raffl

Thanks for the advice everyone. It looks like two babies may be the way to go (I'm secretly thrilled since it means I can have two more boys in my group)

Raymond, the agressive one, is calming down a bit, he has been on his own from before we got him and was a bit bitey with us at the start but has become a soppy little thing over the past few months. Hopefully if he gets out of his grumpy teenagehood he may be able to be introduced again and at least have some play time out with the others, although I would keep him in his own cage since that's his home and he defends it to the end (although I'm fairly sure he sees the entire house as "his"!)

If he settles, or castration helps or whatever, you will probably find he'd much rather be in a cage with other rats than in his cage, even if that's what he's used to!

It's very uncommon for rats to want to live on their own. I had a lone female that couldn't be trusted around other rats and she was a bit of a special case so I'm not criticising at all, I'm just saying that if he gets to the point where he's ok with other rats, he'd probably be happier moving out of his home to go live with other ratties!

Elizabeth13 · 14-06-2011, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotti

My babies have always had hammocks... I just make sure they have been cleaned before introductions. My babies came out of the hammocks to see me!!

I suppose it depends who you get them from - all of the people who took my babies can't get over how confident and outgoing they are.

Yes, it does depend where you get the from and how well handled they've been. Mine are very skittish, weren't bought up very well and their pink eyes don't help!
You don't even want to know the kinda trouble I went through trying to reintroduced my two brothers back after one was castrated - you'd have thought they were two lone males not brothers who'd been together since birth!

lillyland · 14-06-2011, 20:36

Hello

I echo all the advice everyone has posted here about intros. I do have babies - but unfortunately, my doe has decided that she wants to make more does, so i only have two bucks, and i will be keeping them!
If you join http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk you will find lots of info about intros, and also there is a rehoming section where you may find some rescue babies.