The Witch Trials

Moon Maiden · 22-04-2003, 18:40

Now most of you on here know by now that I have a deep interest in witchcraft and magick

.

I would like some opinions on the witchtrials from 'ordinary' people for an article I am writing about it.

Firstly what do you know about the trials? Anything nothing, what?

Also, what do you think of that period in history? Do you think of it as a tragic time for witches, women, christians, humanity in general??

Do you think the information out there is accurate and unbiased?

Just some general thoughts and opinions really. I know what other witches and pagans think about it. Interested in other POV's.

Thank You
Moon Maiden

Hixxy · 22-04-2003, 19:51

I don't know a great deal about the witch trials, but I believe they all came about in a town called Salem, USA. Am I right?

Moon Maiden · 22-04-2003, 20:12

The Salem is one of the most famous but was not the only one. They took place all over Europe and subsequently the US between 700-1500AD.

Moon Maiden

Hixxy · 22-04-2003, 20:55

Oh, I see. I don't even remember where I heard about them to be honest. From what I can remember, there was mass hysteria at the time and anyone (well, any woman) found 'guilty' of being a witch was executed. Obviously, I'm not an expert on the subject, so please correct if I'm wrong, but here are my recollections of what I've heard. The trials were very biased and any woman that even made it to trial didn't stand a chance of surviving. The fact that they'd even made it to trial was enough for most juries to find them guilty. What I do know is that there is a common misconception that they were all burned at the stake, but I think that the majority of these so called 'witches' were hanged. There was very little evidence given at these trials, and I think that many innocent women were killed uneccesarily.
As I said, I'm not an expert, so this account of events may be misleading, but please correct me if I am wrong.

Moon Maiden · 22-04-2003, 21:28

Don't worry if you are wrong or not Hixxy, I want to know what people know of the time and what their thoughts are really.

Whern I have written the article I will give you the link to it and then you can read some

Moon Maiden

Hixxy · 22-04-2003, 21:31

Thanks Moon Maiden. I hope my contribution helps.

John · 22-04-2003, 22:49

OK - I being honest here, flame me as much as you like but I do not believe in witches, full stop.

What can you do or possibly say to change my mind?

Asking me to read a book as such isn't going to convice me one bit - I tried that with UFOs books and the only way one can convice someone like me is to see physical evident of some sort with my own eyes.

Despite what I said, how can you tell if someone is a witch or not?

Moon Maiden · 23-04-2003, 07:05

Hi John,

why would I possibly want to convince you otherwise. Like you said only a physical event will convince you.

As to how you would know a witch. The general rule so to speak is that it takes a witch to know a witch. Very much like birds of a feather, flock together.

A collegue at work could be a practising witch and you would not know simply because of the persecution that you yourself may be guilty of. A lot of witches and pagans fear letting people know, who and what they are, because they are ridiculed and more often than not harrassed to "do some magick" or by christians who believe they worship the devil.

I know one friend who has had to move because of the abuse she recieved from a neighbour and the housing association did nothing to help.

Anyway, you haven't answered my question about the witch trials. Your belief in the existence of witches shouldn't really colour your opinions on the event.

Moon Maiden

halevan · 23-04-2003, 08:59

I saw the film, the "Witches of Salem" and it was typical of the hysteria around at the time, due to the fear, ignorance and superstition in those day's. When the accuser's danced themselves into a frenzy and then pointed to the victim, it was assumed they were guilty of Witchcraft.

However, it was soon stopped when the people at the top (the Witchcraft Hunter's) started to be accused, those trial's were so stupid it is almost unbelievable, the ruling classes were convinced that was the only way to stamp out evil, but as we all know now this is something that can never be achieved.

If the film was accurate, the women who were found guilty of Witchcraft were indeed burnt alive at the stake.
What a horrible death, not justified in any circumstances.
These crimes were perpetrated by ignorant bigot's who were sure they were right and would destroy evil.

Now, what about Witchcraft? well I personally think there is a spiritual power capable of being used by some people, for good or evil how I do not know. You could say for instance black Witchcraft for evil, the Churches for good.

My experience with Witchcraft? well I asked a white Witch to find me a healer to treat the severe pain I was suffering. She did and the healer contacted me to give me some exercises to do, and also to tell me about the treatment he would give me.

It was absent healing and at the time I travelled away from home a lot, he said it would work where I was anywhere in the world. He asked for my photograph and said when he went into a trance, or as he put it exercises he could see the problem area of my body which was red and inflamed.

During the treatment all my pain completely disappeared and that was after I had been on pain killer's from the Doctor for many year's also I had had hand's laid on me in Church many many times with no difference at all.

Sadly, I lost touch with that healer because he kept saying to me " you are not one of us are you "and as giving me the treatment exhausted him and he never charged me one penny I suppose he thought it wasn't worth it.

senseofplace · 23-04-2003, 10:02

I reckon the witch trials were a part of something in human nature that is always there and many people have suffered/do suffer/ will suffer death or misery because of it. It's names include ignorance, fear, malice, selfishness. It's propagated by an inability to accept differences in others, fear of another person or group, a need by some to keep others in fear and ignorance - generally so that they can maintain 'power'. It spreads through misinformation, scaremongering, self righteousness, and again ignorance. In some places in the world today it is still considered all right to kill for this thing. In other places and times it takes a different form. Usually there is a 'situation' (plague, poverty, war, bad government, people not spending enough, people starting to notice someone in power has been really really naughty/evil/incompetent, debt, etc etc)
IMO modern 'Witch hunts' (why else would the saying still be in use?) include ostracising gay people by blaming AIDS on them (at it's worst in the 80s/90s); using the label terrorist alongside the word Muslim/Islam constantly (just listen to the news); shaming people on dodgy talk shows for their differences in clothes, opinions, lifestyles (the US is very big on this one); making women or other members of a political/religious community hide their faces/bodies and abilities (no face, no voice= no power)
All these things are in place (again, only an opinion) to give your 'ordinary' person someone to look down upon, a scapegoat, a boogeyman to take their mind off what they should really be worrying about, a set of 'standards' and an example of what will happen if you don't follow them, etc. They are a way of keeping those in the know or holders of power in control - of information, of possible rebellion, of change...whatever.
We can see it now in the media, you can trace it back through time, and you can certainly see where it comes in at the witch trials (which weren't all congregated in one time, AFAIK, but reared their ugly heads time and again for a century or two or more.) witch trials can be traced to times of uncertainty, fear, crop failure, war, monetary distress, etc. Poor women, victims of hyped-up fear (the government/monarchy were happy to stir it), ignorance, and the nastier face of human nature.

Oops...finished now...

Laura,
wandering off after yet another unforeseen rant...

searcher_1 · 31-05-2008, 10:49

Hiya all, have been personally called a witch for havin two black cats! they were orphans, what can I say... Good luck with the work

Goon · 31-05-2008, 10:58

I am distant relation of Alice Nutter, one of the so called 'Pendle Witches' from the last witch trial in the UK.

Wildcat · 31-05-2008, 11:13

When I was a young teen, I picked up Dennis Wheatley's "the Devil and all his Works" from a church jumble sale. It fired a bit of a fascination with occult things.

I read Keith Thomas's book Religion and the decline of magic to inform my A levels.

Keith Thomas's book is good and puts the whole 'wisewoman' type phenomena and the extent of christianity itself in to a perspective I wouldn't otherise have had. It has been a while since I have read anything. As I remember it, persecution in the Uk was mostly been pretty low key, with the church appropriating older traditions, pagan wells becoming saints wells etc.

The real persecutions along with heretics was on the continent. Inspired by the lunacy of the Malleus Maleficarum now available online it has some wonderfully loopy passages.

The section on witches stealing male members is particularly entertaining, it contains:

"For a certain man tells that, when he had lost his member, he approached a known witch to ask her to restore it to him. She told the afflicted man to climb a certain tree, and that he might take which he liked out of the nest in which there were several members. And when he tried to take a big one, the witch said: You must not take that one; adding, because it belongs to a parish priest."

Minimo · 31-05-2008, 11:28

Its my opinion that the Witchfinder General Matthew Hopkins was nothing but a dirty pervert who delighted in watching women stripped naked and poked and pinched looking for devils marks. I bet it was all his mothers fault he turned out like that!

Greybeard · 31-05-2008, 12:40

I suspect the 'official' hysteria over witchcraft in medieval times was similar to the official hysteria we are experiencing now over terrorism.

It's an excuse for curtailing liberty, repression of freedom of expression and general 'scapegoatism'.

In fact the English judiciary then as now treated the matter with a degree of scepticism. there were some successful prosecutions of witches in England but most of the prosecutions failed; and none of those found guilty were burned at the stake.

Titian · 31-05-2008, 12:47

From my very basic knowledge of it I think it was a terrible time for women in general. And the best time to aim to be the village bitch, spreading gossip about the more vulnerable women?

If you were caught not playing ball with the stronger women you were damned?

waddy · 31-05-2008, 13:16

My stepmom always thought I was a witch I used to scare her loads

I thought the biggest place for witches was Salem also.I am really interested in this.How can say you dont believe in witches John as there has been them and still is.I think its the idea of them being magical in some way that you probably dont believe and I agree.I think it was actually a name made up for women who made herbal remedies and were reclusive . These days they would be called eccentric.

zooburner · 31-05-2008, 13:17

Hiya there

As a Christian with a close friend whos a white witch (so to speak), what can i say, except that we have somehow chosen to live in peace with each other, no matter what the belief two people living at peace with each other has to be a good thing.

We have much in commeon, our hearts beat warmly, and love the same, we wish each other well and care deeply for each other.

Our views on nature are very similiar, we both enjoy and love the countryside and nature, its our angle thats different, she worships nature, and by doing so worships its creator, i cut out the middle man and worship the creator and thank Him for it ??

But yanno what, it doasnt matter, because we laugh togther, cry togther, and have peace..

So all is well

slimsid2000 · 31-05-2008, 14:03

It's a good job Matthew Hopkins aka The Witchfinder General iswn't on here or you would be swinging from a gibbet by now.

Greybeard · 31-05-2008, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimsid2000

It's a good job Matthew Hopkins aka The Witchfinder General iswn't on here or you would be swinging from a gibbet by now.

I would have thought someone with Henry Tudor as his avatar would know the difference between the gallows and a gibbet.