[Magilla]

Originally Posted by LadOnDole

Unemployment has been high for the past 15 years, in fact probably for around the last 25 years.

With regards the New Labour miracle of reducing unemployment, they simply put millions of people of working age on incapacity benefits, created bogus education schemes (in fact just added to what the torys did before), and helped with the expolsion of higher education as a means of fiddling the stats.

They also created non jobs in the public sector and also helped with the growth industry of " people creating rules so proper businesses cannot grow "

Well put. Unemployment has always been high, but now there's no money left to fiddle the numbers and create non jobs.

[Grandad.Malky]

Originally Posted by Magilla

Well put. .

Don’t encourage him

[SimpyTimpy]

Originally Posted by Rowan22

And if the blood sucking money grubbing national traitor Tory party hadn't sold out the British manufacturing Industry to make a fast buck for shareholders, New Labour wouldn't have had to continue to rely on the financial services sector to provide the economy with the money it needs to run things like say the NHS.

But instead the government would have had to continue funding manufacturing sectors that weren't generating a profit, and the free market created by joining the European Union would have resulted in people importing goods for cheaper than they cost when manufactured / mined in the UK?

Re-alligning the economy to be a predominantly services industry focused isn't really the problem here - it's the lack of regulation in crucial financial markets that resulted in the crash.

Interesting through hindsight isn't it? If we'd chosen to regulate more heavily against the banks, they probably would have moved their HQs out of London, and we would have suffered earlier on in the first place.

The main way we could have avoided this situation was from Global Policy decisions and regulations that weren't made. You can probably argue that UK Government should have pushed harder for such changes, but no-one truly foresaw the economic crisis (especially the magnitude)

As said earlier in the thread, governmental policy doesn't start to truly show it's impact on an economy for years - Tory/Lib Dem policies will start to show their results by the end of this parliament, giving votes plenty of data in which to make their decisions at the polls in 4 years.

[Grandad.Malky]

Originally Posted by SimpyTimpy

, giving votes plenty of data in which to make their decisions at the polls in 4 years.

I think they have enough data now thanks.

[Magilla]

Originally Posted by Malky

Don’t encourage him

Credit where it's due. I don't agree with much he's posted but on this score he's not wrong.

[Rowan22]

Originally Posted by SimpyTimpy

But instead the government would have had to continue funding manufacturing sectors that weren't generating a profit, and the free market created by joining the European Union would have resulted in people importing goods for cheaper than they cost when manufactured / mined in the UK?

Re-alligning the economy to be a predominantly services industry focused isn't really the problem here - it's the lack of regulation in crucial financial markets that resulted in the crash.

Interesting through hindsight isn't it? If we'd chosen to regulate more heavily against the banks, they probably would have moved their HQs out of London, and we would have suffered earlier on in the first place.

The main way we could have avoided this situation was from Global Policy decisions and regulations that weren't made. You can probably argue that UK Government should have pushed harder for such changes, but no-one truly foresaw the economic crisis (especially the magnitude)

As said earlier in the thread, governmental policy doesn't start to truly show it's impact on an economy for years - Tory/Lib Dem policies will start to show their results by the end of this parliament, giving votes plenty of data in which to make their decisions at the polls in 4 years.

Strange then that Germany maintained a healthy vibrant manufacturing sector.

[SimpyTimpy]

Originally Posted by Malky

I think they have enough data now thanks.

You've completely missed my point then - I understand other areas such as tuition fee increases (which the Liberal Democrats were naive enough to pledge they wouldn't increase) and general political views against Tories/Lib Dem, but any voting decision for the moment cannot be made on economic policy (if you want to see the full impact of them)

[SimpyTimpy]

Originally Posted by Rowan22

Strange then that Germany maintained a healthy vibrant manufacturing sector.

That's true - but one thing about globalisation is that national economies have to focus on a select number of markets in order to promote growth in the economy.

Couple of theoretical cases:

(i) The UK maintains it's struggling manufacturing industry and manages to keep growth acceptable / good - would this have resulted in the same or better growth than which was achieved when the economy was re-alligned?

(ii) The UK maintains it's struggling manufacturing industry but due to high employment and land costs, finds it difficult to compete with highlight efficient economies such as Japan, Germany and cheaper economies such as India, Taiwan and China. This results in negative growth even in a fledging global economy

Or what happened:

(iii) The UK ceases incentives to struggling industries such as mining and manufacturing of certain goods, whilst promoting the manufacturing of complex goods (scientific devices, etc). The finance / services sectors grow at a high rate but due to lack of regulations / control, this results in London/UK being more highly exposed to the financial crisis than what would have otherwise been the case.

We as a country enjoyed unprecendented growth from 1997 to 2007, but unfortunately did not plan for, or predict the financial crisis. Perhaps we should have put more money to one side instead of increasing spending on public services. We did however all benefit from this increase in spending, but it should have been done more efficiently.

My point is that, pulling the subsidies from the manufacturing industries in the 70s/80s had a positive impact on the UK economy as a whole. As painful as it was to certain areas of the country.

[LadOnDole]

Originally Posted by Malky

Don’t encourage him

Ha ha, you Labour Supporters don't like the truth.

Either that or you can't see the truth.

Are you one of these people whos non job is under threat by any chance?

[SimpyTimpy]

Originally Posted by LadOnDole

Ha ha, you Labour Supporters don't like the truth.

Either that or you can't see the truth.

Are you one of these people whos non job is under threat by any chance?

Not been following you on the forums, so this is the first thread I've seen you post in.

Your first post in this thread was quite sensible - this one just serves to discredit you.

You may view some of these jobs as unimportant, but do remember that those being made redundant will be going through incredibly stressful times, so try and show some consideration.

[Anna B]

Originally Posted by SimpyTimpy

But instead the government would have had to continue funding manufacturing sectors that weren't generating a profit, and the free market created by joining the European Union would have resulted in people importing goods for cheaper than they cost when manufactured / mined in the UK?

Re-alligning the economy to be a predominantly services industry focused isn't really the problem here - it's the lack of regulation in crucial financial markets that resulted in the crash.

Interesting through hindsight isn't it? If we'd chosen to regulate more heavily against the banks, they probably would have moved their HQs out of London, and we would have suffered earlier on in the first place.

The main way we could have avoided this situation was from Global Policy decisions and regulations that weren't made. You can probably argue that UK Government should have pushed harder for such changes, but no-one truly foresaw the economic crisis (especially the magnitude)

As said earlier in the thread, governmental policy doesn't start to truly show it's impact on an economy for years - Tory/Lib Dem policies will start to show their results by the end of this parliament, giving votes plenty of data in which to make their decisions at the polls in 4 years.

What I don't understand tho' is how the Japanese can come to Britain and open factories manufacturing Japanese cars, and make it pay (taking their profits back to Japan,) but british manufacturers can't do the same.

Why?
And why do we no longer have a manufacturing base when other European countries such as Germany seem to manage it?

[wednesday1]

Originally Posted by Anna B

What I don't understand tho' is how the Japanese can come to Britain and open factories manufacturing Japanese cars, and make it pay (taking their profits back to Japan,) but british manufacturers can't do the same.

Why?
And why do we no longer have a manufacturing base when other European countries such as Germany seem to manage it?

Only the UK in the western world has turned it's back on manufacturing. Something to do with Conservatives pathological hatred of industries with organised labour.

[Vague_Boy]

Originally Posted by wednesday1

Bunkum!!!

I love your detailed rebuttals. Certainly raises the bar for the best of us.

Originally Posted by wednesday1

Yep, we all know it was the ConDems friends, the Bankers. Here's what Mervyn King the Govenor of The Bank of England blames

Could this really be the same Merv the Swerve who got into trouble for supporting the coalitions cuts?

Bank chief Mervyn King accused of political support for Coalition's cuts

Bank of England governor Mervyn King has come under fire from Monetary Policy Committee member Dr Adam Posen.

The Commons Treasury Select Committee heard details of the extraordinary infighting over a paragraph in the Bank’s Inflation Report published on May 12, hours after the Coalition Government was formed by the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats.

It said: ‘A more detailed and demanding path of fiscal consolidation than set out in the March 2010 Budget may therefore be needed in order to avoid unnecessary increases in the cost of issuing public debt.’

In a highly unusual move, Dr Posen revealed his fury about the wording to MPs, an anger which he said was shared by other members of the nine-person team. He said they felt the comment was ‘excessively political in the context of the election.’

LINK


I also think you're being somewhat disingenuous in saying that the Tories are the "banker's friends". Have you forgotten the sight of Hamish McRuin in his penguin suit, sucking up to the CBI?

[Brown's] speech in 2005 to the CBI however was pure New Labour neo-liberalism, praising enterprise, free markets and globalisation. He promised the corporate class deregulation, a “new risk based model of regulation” for financial services

So there was no risk-based reason to clamp down on Northern Rock?

Osborne in the Indy catches Balls at it as well

“But the real prize for memory loss must go to Ed Balls. On Monday he said that those who had advocated “light touch regulation” had been, in his words, “routed”. This is the same Ed Balls who as Chief Economic Adviser to the Treasury for eight years boasted about the “light touch” regime of City regulation he had designed. This is also the same Ed Balls who then as City Minister called for “a light touch approach at the global and EU level”. The star player of Labour’s football team has scored a spectacular own-goal.”

LINK


Well that "limited touch" worked out well didn't it? Even Crash Gordon admitted it was a mistake.

Mortgage Fraud Confirms Gordon Brown's Responsibility for the Financial Crisis

Gordon Brown yesterday confessed that Labour's light touch on financial regulation was a mistake that contributed towards the financial crisis. Previously he had repeatedly self congratulated himself for saving the banking system from collapse and blamed lack of banking sector regulation on pressure from the City of London, form the banking sector, Bank of England and FSA, all of whom he alluded to wanted light touch regulation so as to maximise profits which funded Labours public sector spending spree which he says he reluctantly went along with rather than implement the regulatory reforms that he had all along envisaged.

On ITV Grown Brown admitted -

LINK

Looks like Crash Gordon willingly danced to the banker's tune. Does that make him their friend or their puppet?

[Vague_Boy]

Originally Posted by wednesday1

Only the UK in the western world has turned it's back on manufacturing. Something to do with Conservatives pathological hatred of industries with organised labour.

Importance of manufacturing to the economy almost halves under Labour

Y'know sometimes it's like I'm the only one with a memory.

The full extent of the decline in manufacturing under Labour has been disclosed by a new analysis.

Its importance to the economy has declined more rapidly since the party came to power than it did during the Margaret Thatcher era.

When Tony Blair entered Downing Street in 1997, manufacturing accounted for more than 20 per cent of the economy. By 2007, it had dropped to 12.4 per cent.

[wednesday1]

Originally Posted by Vague_Boy

Importance of manufacturing to the economy almost halves under Labour

Y'know sometimes it's like I'm the only one with a memory.

The one who forgot Labour's Bankers windfall tax??? (only a year ago).
I get the impression that you are a David Icke / Taxpayers Alliance loon!

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Anna B

What I don't understand tho' is how the Japanese can come to Britain and open factories manufacturing Japanese cars, and make it pay (taking their profits back to Japan,) but british manufacturers can't do the same.

Why?
And why do we no longer have a manufacturing base when other European countries such as Germany seem to manage it?

It's easy to believe that when we keep hearing politically motivated tripe like this...

Originally Posted by wednesday1

Only the UK in the western world has turned it's back on manufacturing. Something to do with Conservatives pathological hatred of industries with organised labour.

The real truth is that the UK is the worlds 6th largest manufacturing nation. Back in the 60's it was 7th.

What's changed is that modern industry doesn't use the same manpower as it did back in the 60's. Unless we're talking about what is basically slave labour in dangerous conditions the same is true everywhere else in the world.

Today's current shopfloor staff may be more likely to be computer programmers than heavy lifters but don't let anyone con you into thinking that that the UK is any less of a manufacturing nation than it ever was.

[Mecky]

Originally Posted by Tony

It's easy to believe that when we keep hearing politically motivated tripe like this...

The real truth is that the UK is the worlds 6th largest manufacturing nation. Back in the 60's it was 7th.

What's changed is that modern industry doesn't use the same manpower as it did back in the 60's. Unless we're talking about what is basically slave labour in dangerous conditions the same is true everywhere else in the world.

Today's current shopfloor staff may be more likely to be computer programmers than heavy lifters but don't let anyone con you into thinking that that the UK is any less of a manufacturing nation than it ever was.

I thought St Mick's day was yesterday? However your post seems to be carrying over the effects. If manufacturing is up on the 60s, and from 1965 it wasn't good with the recession, if it is up, it's only up in the terms of manufacturing output and prrrrroooffit. I suspect manufacturing these days is not keeping people in work at the rate that what manufacturing in the 60s did. People (most) want to work, however greed and selfishness rule these days, even more so than back in the 60s, so pprrrrrofit first, people second.

[LadOnDole]

Originally Posted by SimpyTimpy

Not been following you on the forums, so this is the first thread I've seen you post in.

Your first post in this thread was quite sensible - this one just serves to discredit you.

You may view some of these jobs as unimportant, but do remember that those being made redundant will be going through incredibly stressful times, so try and show some consideration.

I don't recall these New Labour types being overly bothered back in around 2003 when policys were being introduced that completely shafted the true British Worker, the productive one. In fact I'll go on to say, they even embraced it

Were they bothered when foregn tradespeopl came into the country, undercut our own workforce and put many on the dole? no, and in fact anyone who questioned this was branded a racist.

These non job wasters are getting exactly what is coming to them.

As the saying goes, what goes around comes around. Be careful how you allow others to be treat, because one day............ etc.....

[Mecky]

Originally Posted by LadOnDole

I don't recall these New Labour types being overly bothered back in around 2003 when policys were being introduced that completely shafted the true British Worker, the productive one. In fact I'll go on to say, they even embraced it

Were they bothered when foregn tradespeopl came into the country, undercut our own workforce and put many on the dole? no, and in fact anyone who questioned this was branded a racist.

These non job wasters are getting exactly what is coming to them.

As the saying goes, what goes around comes around. Be careful how you allow others to be treat, because one day............ etc.....

What policies were these? If you are referring to immigration, I have not seen any evidence of immigrants working for less money than British people do, except maybe for smuggled shellfish pickers.

What is a non job waster? What is a non job? It seems to me that you are bitter about your life and you are just picking on an easy target i.e. immigrants.

[Grandad.Malky]

Originally Posted by LadOnDole

Ha ha, you Labour Supporters don't like the truth.

Either that or you can't see the truth.

Are you one of these people whos non job is under threat by any chance?

I have worked in heavy industry for over 30 years ( non job )and from the latest government information on unemployment the over 50’s are in demand so I don’t think I fall into the “ under threat” group ………. don’t worry I wont be pinching your signing on slot just yet.