[purple.sarah]

A year ago we adopted a pair of Akitas, a male called Kado and female called Yoki. Yoki is an American Akita which means she is naturally bigger and broader than Kado and on top of that she's also slightly overweight, which we're working on. Kado is 9 and Yoki is 7. They grew up together and are inseparable and very affectionate towards each other. One won't even go for a walk without the other. Although Kado is the more easygoing of the two and knows he's second in command to us he has always been the dominant one with Yoki. On walks Yoki follows him and won't venture far away from him even if she's allowed off lead and he always eats and drinks first. She used to not even take a drink of water before him and if she did he would bark or growl till she backed down. Until recently he had no problem defending his place in the pack. We're fostering Chance, a male bullmastiff x puppy and he tried to dominate the other dogs by jumping all over them, Kado was not having any of it and put him in his place. Now we keep Chance separate from the others so he doesn't stress them out or get hurt.

However recently we've been having problems with Yoki challenging Kado. She has started to eat before him and steal his food and today he barked at her and she barked back and won, he backed down and was distressed. She seems to be trying to take over as the dominant one. Kado is getting older and has arthritis so he is a bit weaker while she's 2 years younger and larger than him. This is causing tension and distressing him.

What should we do? Should we reinforce Kado's position as the dominant dog? How should we do that? We are obviously going to feed them separately now and feed him first. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Evei]

Originally Posted by purple.sarah

A year ago we adopted a pair of Akitas, a male called Kado and female called Yoki. Yoki is an American Akita which means she is naturally bigger and broader than Kado and on top of that she's also slightly overweight, which we're working on. Kado is 9 and Yoki is 7. They grew up together and are inseparable and very affectionate towards each other. One won't even go for a walk without the other. Although Kado is the more easygoing of the two and knows he's second in command to us he has always been the dominant one with Yoki. On walks Yoki follows him and won't venture far away from him even if she's allowed off lead and he always eats and drinks first. She used to not even take a drink of water before him and if she did he would bark or growl till she backed down. Until recently he had no problem defending his place in the pack. We're fostering Chance, a male bullmastiff x puppy and he tried to dominate the other dogs by jumping all over them, Kado was not having any of it and put him in his place. Now we keep Chance separate from the others so he doesn't stress them out or get hurt.

However recently we've been having problems with Yoki challenging Kado. She has started to eat before him and steal his food and today he barked at her and she barked back and won, he backed down and was distressed. She seems to be trying to take over as the dominant one. Kado is getting older and has arthritis so he is a bit weaker while she's 2 years younger and larger than him. This is causing tension and distressing him.

What should we do? Should we reinforce Kado's position as the dominant dog? How should we do that? We are obviously going to feed them separately now and feed him first. Any advice would be appreciated.

When I saw them on the walk I presumed Yoki was in charge out of the two. She just striked me as having everything on her terms and was always the one to approach other dogs first and check people out

I think I would get advice from someone who has seen this before, is there a breed forum? My friend is just waiting for his second akita (he gets lots of very cute fluffy puppy updates) so has all this to come in the future and like you said with strong dogs has to be dealt with seriously otherwise they could hurt each other.

Hope you find a home for chance too, he has been with you quite a while now , has there been much interest?

[Lotti]

When Bubble started pushing Takara, I made sure Takara had more access to things than Bubble did. I'm not one for pack theory as most people know - I've never had dogs that follow a pack structure - they change all the time and the best way I heard someone describe the 'dominant dog' was 'the one who wants it the most at that time'.

It could well be that now Kado is getting older, Yoki is seeing it and realises she can push him that little bit further.

I have to say, when I had another dalmatian come to stay, she asserted herself over my dogs and I went along with whatever they found natural, my two seemed quite content to let her get her way because I was ok with it but I'm not sure how long it would've lasted if she'd stayed any longer.

With my two girls now, I make sure Bubble has to wait until I've fed Takara to be fed and she waits until Takara gets to come in before she can come in - just allowing her access to things first.

I also make sure that if they do scrap, I reinforce Takara for backing down and make a big deal of telling Bubble 'no' in front of Takara.

I also make sure that Bubble isn't allowed to push Takara. Things like she would force Takara off her bed by sitting on her (Eddy also used to do this to Takara!!) or putting her bum in her face until T moved, now I make sure that I catch her at it and move her onto her own bed so she knows I'm backing Takara up.

I still don't think they have a pack structure - because one day one will get what she wants, and the next the other will. If they see another dog, Bubble will always be first to approach and T follows because she's more nervous but then in the house, T gets things first - so the 'pack' changes in different situations too - and this is common amongst most dogs.

However, I'd say to make sure Yoki sees you back up Kado and that when Yoki is pushing Kado, you distract her and get her to do something else. Don't drag her away by her collar and tell her off, just get her interested in something else. If Kado barks or growls at her, don't let her ignore him - make sure she takes the hint and leaves him alone otherwise it could well escalate.

You can do all the 'Kado goes through doors first and eats first' etc. if you like - and I do it just in case, but I mainly do it to teach Bubble manners and quite often I'll relax it so they don't have to go in that order. Just yesterday, I fed Bubble and then Takara - and world war three didn't break out!

Good luck, I don't have any experience training akitas, I don't think I've ever had one come to classes or anything but hopefully this helps a little bit.

[medusa]

I'm with Lotti on this one too- the age and health of the dogs is relevant I think.

In the long run I'm not sure that you have any other option than backing Yoki and making Kado back down, mainly because there will be a point, probably not that far away, when she is undeniably going to be younger and stronger than Kado.

In many of the situations that I've seen the stress for the dog being 'deposed' is really only existent whilst the process is happening and they return to a more relaxed and stress reduced state once everyone is sure of the result and pack peace is restored.

Pack leader dogs aren't set in stone and the dynamic with having one bitch and one dog is also probably relevant because if they were both dogs or both bitches then they would have likely been further apart in the dominance and submission positions, but as they are then they're probably a little closer to equal to start off with, making dominance easier to turn over.

Whatever you do I think you have to choose who you are going to make the dominant dog and go with it properly- but that doesn't mean that you can automatically back Kado no matter what the dogs think, if you see what I mean.

[willman]

I'm a strong believer in pack theory(no surprise there then) - but all the advice given is valid advice.
There will be a point when #1 dog is to old or infirm to hold dominant dog status, your role should be to ease it along not prevent it. As the pack leader - YOU protect/console/assist whichever dog you see fit to assist ,this maintains their pecking order and status but you should try and refrain from showing "favoroutism.

The reason why anecdotal evidence conflicts on pack status is because the human is pack leader,you're allowing it to happen not the dog.After pack leader the rest are equal until you acknowledge differently.

I have an older boxer who if he wants to be dominant dog he will forcefully take over,however 9 times out of 10 he lets the youngster do his thing,he isn't being submissive he just knows that he doesn't need to prove or do anything. I always "back his play" so the youngster does curtail his behaviour.

[ladyB]

I am relativly new to the "dog world" as I am usually a cat person and I have only had Moll for one year however I did recently watch a documentry about wolves and what I got from it ( or my interpr was) that it was not really about dominance but more about structure!! In each pack there was a leader, a nagotiator a mother fiqure, jester etc!! it wasn't about the pack having a dominating leader and the rest always being sub servient to that leader it was more about how the group could work together within their roles to keep the pack strong and meet the needs of the group. As long as each member had a role to play then the pack worked well and kept strong. does that make sense????

[Becks37]

I too firmly believe in pack theory, and see it in my own dogs daily. I agree with William that its your job to assit not to prevent it happening. Its only natural with age / illness the pack will change, although I must say I have no experiences with this breed and feel that they have more pack mentality then some of the other breeds, hopefully there will be a breed forum on the net you could get some advice from ??

p.s your foster is loovvvelly

[puddinburner]

Awwww hope things get sorted soon, I would say they will sort themselves out in time. I only see this behaviour with one solitary elderly bitch, she sure as hell asserts her dominance when the cat tries pinching her food. Thats you told then? Lips snarl and one hell of a bark she knocks herself over. X

[shullie]

having got and Akita bitch myself, I know that can become more dominant as they get older, I would also have a talk with one of the Akita welfare groups. Friends of Akita's are a great group and some of them are quite local.

http://www.friendsofakitas.co.uk/

Akitas can be a breed unto themselves especially around pack work... stubborn is not the word - I am sure that some of the people at friends will be able to suggest things that can help