Can An Employer Do This?

simonj · 28-10-2005, 21:37

Not sure if this is the best section of the forum to put this on but here goes....

Today, my 18 yr old son has just been given and signed a contract at his new employers after a six week trial period. At the same meeting with one of the managers he was given an ultimatum!

Some background.. He works 8 hours a day Mon-Fri as a machine operator (not shiftwork). He also does bar work in a pub on Thursday and Saturday evenings until 11.45pm. His employers are aware that he works these extra hours in the pub and have been since he started working there.

At this meeting they have told him that they think he seems tired on Friday mornings and so has to choose between his full time job with them and the pub work.

They have never mentioned that he might look tired on other mornings despite the odd late night at the other side of the bar - no different from many other employees! It seems that the employer has some kind of 'thing' about their employees having two jobs but surely it is no business of theirs unless the employees performance is quite obviously affected by the other job.

His contract mentions no specific terms relating to this situation nor any general statements, and both he and I are unaware of any official company policy on the matter.

Can the employer force him to chose between jobs? And if he chooses to remain working at the pub can they sack him? If so, on what possible grounds?

Grateful for any thoughts...

dinp · 28-10-2005, 22:13

I dont think they have any right to insist on this. As long as he does his work, what he does outside of working hours is his business.

max · 28-10-2005, 22:13

The simple answer to this is to ask his union representative for advice.

jan2002 · 28-10-2005, 22:17

I would have thought that if the employer saw this as a big problem they wouldn't have given a contract.
It maybe worth checking with ACAS
I would be inclined to check this out before problems arise

jan2002

Rich · 28-10-2005, 22:21

Quote:

Originally posted by max
The simple answer to this is to ask his union representative for advice.

That's if the lad's even IN a union which given that he's only 18 is unlikely.

On the other hand it could still be worth a word in the union man's ear and see what he says.

SallyLaLaLa · 28-10-2005, 22:31

As your son has just completed his six week probation period technically they can get rid of him if he refuses to give up his Thursday evening job as he's not yet a permanent employee.

However, once he's signed his permanent contract he could probably carry on as they wouldn't be able to get rid of him so easily.

Most of us look tired on Fridays. If he wants the cash maybe he should carry on working Sats and Thurs and just have Fridays on the other side of the bar? He might not look so tired by Friday then.

It's a difficult one, because wages for 18yr olds aren't great and they might need to supplement their income, but employers should get the full five days work rather than 4 and an off day - for your son's co-workers sake at least.

Maybe he should really wire in at work and not have too many nights out for a bit - that way he might get promoted and be able to give up the evening job.

simonj · 28-10-2005, 22:45

He has been offered and signed a permanent contract today. Sorry if it came over that he is on the other side of the bar more than is good for him. He goes out for a drink during the week on very few occasions, has never been late, and has never been warned about 'looking tired/hungover'. Seems to me that the company has an 'unwritten' rule about having two jobs. Can't understand why they have allowed him to sign a contract and then virtually told him to get rid of his 'one night a week' bar job!

robbie · 28-10-2005, 23:45

with heavy machinery I think thye are allowed to do that. If they don't think he is safe or capable enough to use it they can (I think) stop him working.

It is a different law for that industry to most I think

AtticusFinch · 29-10-2005, 00:30

Get him to lie that he's quit his other bar job, when in fact he's still working there. Since it's none of his present employer's business what other jobs he does, he's perfectly justified in lying to them about it.

nightrider · 29-10-2005, 01:17

Quote:

Originally posted by simonj
Not sure if this is the best section of the forum to put this on but here goes....

Today, my 18 yr old son has just been given and signed a contract at his new employers after a six week trial period. At the same meeting with one of the managers he was given an ultimatum!

Some background.. He works 8 hours a day Mon-Fri as a machine operator (not shiftwork). He also does bar work in a pub on Thursday and Saturday evenings until 11.45pm. His employers are aware that he works these extra hours in the pub and have been since he started working there.

At this meeting they have told him that they think he seems tired on Friday mornings and so has to choose between his full time job with them and the pub work.

They have never mentioned that he might look tired on other mornings despite the odd late night at the other side of the bar - no different from many other employees! It seems that the employer has some kind of 'thing' about their employees having two jobs but surely it is no business of theirs unless the employees performance is quite obviously affected by the other job.

His contract mentions no specific terms relating to this situation nor any general statements, and both he and I are unaware of any official company policy on the matter.

Can the employer force him to chose between jobs? And if he chooses to remain working at the pub can they sack him? If so, on what possible grounds?

Grateful for any thoughts...

machine operator "sounds" like the sort of thing not to be done when tired (on pain of accidentaly causing yourself a serious injury). So maybe its best not to be tired on fridays?

I dont know what they can legally do, but its worth thinking about that maybe they are simply worried he will slip up when tired (like we all do) and hurt himself.

Beakerzoid · 29-10-2005, 01:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Daley
Get him to lie that he's quit his other bar job, when in fact he's still working there. Since it's none of his present employer's business what other jobs he does, he's perfectly justified in lying to them about it.

Actually, employers need to know of other jobs for NI and tax purposes, and also for European Working Time Directives purposes.

http://www.incomesdata.co.uk/informa...edirective.htm for the directives listing. In it there is a breakdown of the minimum rest period per week, and between shifts. Unless an employee signs an opt-out form then they are bound to follow them, and multiple jobs count towards them.

H.P · 29-10-2005, 06:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Beakerzoid
Actually, employers need to know of other jobs for NI and tax purposes, and also for European Working Time Directives purposes.

http://www.incomesdata.co.uk/informa...edirective.htm for the directives listing. In it there is a breakdown of the minimum rest period per week, and between shifts. Unless an employee signs an opt-out form then they are bound to follow them, and multiple jobs count towards them.

This is correct.. I work for D.W.P and we arnt really allowed to take other jobs unless we have permission first..

RichF · 29-10-2005, 10:59

Unless the contract specifically prohibits him having a second job then once that contract is signed the employer can't do much about it...except of course be generally sh*tty about it.

Incidently, DWP contracts don't atually prohibit second jobs, they just insist that we clear it with 'em first so they can keep track of what we're up to...nominally to ensure we don't jeopardise the impartiality of the civil service.

Internetowl · 29-10-2005, 11:02

however on the grounds of safety - if they are suggesting he's not fit to work on Friday mornings - they could stagger his shifts a bit if they wanted to... ie let him start later on a friday (1/2 day) and work an extra hour Monday-Thursday I guess it just depends on how keen the company are to have him working for them.

davyboy · 29-10-2005, 16:17

if your son has worked for his employer for less than one year he has no employment rights and they can sack him if they want.

wendygs · 29-10-2005, 18:32

It's also not a good idea to lie to your employer because they could use that as an excuse to sack him; there is another thread about this issue on the Forum but cant remember where it is.

Yellowrose · 29-10-2005, 18:47

Ive noticed in one or two contracts of employment in the past that there has been a clause about it being your only or sole employment. One I remember was the city council. But Im not sure if it was just a matter of disclosure, like it is in the civil service. Axa insurance also had a clause about it being your only job. This is not very helpful I know. But have you looked at the jobcentre plus site and seen if there are any contact numbers for people to help you with employment rights? or even tried the citizens advice?

H.P · 29-10-2005, 19:40

Quote:

Originally posted by RichF
Unless the contract specifically prohibits him having a second job then once that contract is signed the employer can't do much about it...except of course be generally sh*tty about it.

Incidently, DWP contracts don't atually prohibit second jobs, they just insist that we clear it with 'em first so they can keep track of what we're up to...nominally to ensure we don't jeopardise the impartiality of the civil service.

I never said we were prohibited just that we had to check first...