Advice please re rescued dog

pets@home · 26-07-2010, 19:22

hi , could i please have your views,? on rescues re homing dogs that have bitten more than once, even if the last time the dog bit was over six mth ago,

Evei · 26-07-2010, 19:41

I think you have to be totally honest and be very careful who you allow to have the dog, explaining the circumstances behind it. Personally I have quite harsh opinions in the area due to the amount of dogs in rescue that have no problems atall and are left waiting. I would not have taken my D on if they had been honest about his dog aggression is it has caused me a lot of heartache

and therefore think rescues should focus on rehoming dogs without problems first and pts the others.

A lot of rescues have no history for most dogs, so for all we know they could have bitten in the past, it is a risk you take as any dog can bite. D bit my boyf in a rage trying to get to another dog ( so there is an excuse!) , he has a scar on his arm two years later. We made the decision then that if he ever bit us again or someone else he would be pts as it meant we could not manage him properly and I would not have it on my concious to rehome him knowing that he was able to do that, even though the aggression was not directed at us.

ps. I'd just like to point out that D is really sweet and a complete softy, I've made him out to be a devil dog

I do believe dogs can be turned around but you need a certain type of person to do it.

geerarffe · 26-07-2010, 20:16

TBH I love problem dogs! lol. I think all dogs deserve a second chance and if a dog has bitten the rescue should be honest and vet new owners more vigorously than a normal rehoming. I don't believe that dogs with no problems are left waiting while the aggressive ones are rehomed. If this is the case a closer look needs to be taken at the people rehoming the ones with issues.

Unless you see the bites you don't know what caused it. The dog could have been spooked, retaliated to an attack, could have been beaten, etc. If the proper assessments are carried out and EVERY situation tested I see no problem with rehoming.

willman · 26-07-2010, 20:20

What it bitten - on all occasions. If its a repeat attacker on the same thing it's obviously got issues.
Has it been assessed, are there any similarities in the attacks.
I have mixed views on dog that bite and although i do agree with pts, in some cases the bites are "enticed" from the dog.

vwkittie · 26-07-2010, 20:21

I agree with Evei, there are enough dogs with no history of aggression awaiting homes and needing care without spending resources on dogs with a history.

Obviously depends on what you mean though, I'm assuming you mean biting a person fairly badly rather than nipping at another dog?

On another forum I go on someone had posted a story about a JRT they had had from a rescue for about 18 months. One night it suddenly attacked the owner without provocation leading to her having to have her face stitched up, she had the dog PTS and very rightly so. She could never trust it again and it would have probably ended up in a centre for a long time, if it could ever be homed at all, using up a kennel that could have helped other dogs.

geerarffe · 26-07-2010, 20:22

That's my point Willman. Unless you can see how/why the dog bit you can't tell the what type of bite it was.

willman · 26-07-2010, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwkittie

I agree with Evei, there are enough dogs with no history of aggression awaiting homes and needing care without spending resources on dogs with a history.

Obviously depends on what you mean though, I'm assuming you mean biting a person fairly badly rather than nipping at another dog?

On another forum I go on someone had posted a story about a JRT they had had from a rescue for about 18 months. One night it suddenly attacked the owner without provocation leading to her having to have her face stitched up, she had the dog PTS and very rightly so. She could never trust it again and it would have probably ended up in a centre for a long time, if it could ever be homed at all, using up a kennel that could have helped other dogs.

But thats not a dog bite, thats a dog attack. Dog attacks = pts in my books.
My boxer turned on my wife and niece on sperate occasions, he never bit them, but in both cases they were treating him inappropriately.

medusa · 26-07-2010, 21:12

There's 'bit' and there's 'bit' so I'm with everyone who says that someone needs to look deeper.

I'm 100% behind dogs that genuinely do attack being unhomeable (mainly because of the legal risk, even if someone is prepared to take them on) but can anybody actually explain what happened when the dog bit?

I took a GSD into a foster home recently because of a selection of problems including that he had nipped a child. What is not mentioned here is that the child's favourite game was waiting for the elderly GSD, who had previously been beaten with a stick and kicked by the mother's ex-partner, to fall asleep and then to jump up and down on the dog's paws and tail when he was asleep.

That hound must have the patience of a saint. He's getting on, he's got arthritis and hip dysplasia, he's been beaten and put up with it, not walked and put up with that and now every time he closes his eyes he gets a 4 year old in outdoor shoes landing on his paws and tail, to the point that he's got a sore with no fur on the end of his tail.

The problem there definitely wasn't with the dog. His 'bite' did nothing more than take the child's shoe off and didn't even leave a mark, and the kindest thing I felt I could do was to make sure that the dog got somewhere quiet to have a decent sleep for the first time in months.

He's been a model citizen since arriving in his foster home BTW, and now has a lady GSD best buddy to sleep in bed with and play with

There are way too many people in this world who see the word 'bite' and automatically see 'devil dog' and if there's no way that you can explain what actually happened at the time that it bit then that's likely to stop the dog being homeable unfortunately.

I'm not a proponent of always keeping a dog in rescue if a home can't be found and reasonably won't be found though. That's expensive, very time consuming, not very positive for the dog (ending their days in a kennel without love and without attention) and it can take the spaces that would otherwise be filled by dozens of dogs with a much more realistic chance of getting a home.

I don't envy you your choice to make, but without further explanation I'm afraid I'm not really able to colour your picture in any more than others.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

Moonbird · 26-07-2010, 21:18

I think that it depends upon the circumstances and severity of the bites as others have said, but I do think that if a dog has bitten badly and certainly more than once then its not fair to pass that dog on to someone else.

geerarffe · 26-07-2010, 22:27

I must clarify that when I say I love problem dogs it's the challenge and thought that goes into why this dog is like it is and remedying it. I've had loads of dog bites for various reasons from the age of 3 till last year from all breed of dogs. lol. Say what you will but a bite doesn't put me off. Each and every time I can tell you why that dog bit. Only one of the dogs was PTS and that wasn't my call, wasn't my dog. I've listed some of the bites I've recieved on here before and got asked if I was a postie! lol. Gives you an idea of how many I've had, and yet I still go back for more.

If a dog attacks, it's not exactly cut and dry but, it's a different matter. Just like a dog that bites has a reason, so does a a dog that attacks. The results are just more severe with an attack. People just need to realise the difference. 9/10 a bite is a warning snap where a limb got in the way. That's not a dangerous dog, that's an annoyed dog like in Medusa's example.

Rainrescue · 26-07-2010, 22:37

the thing is P@H - we can't manage to find homes for second hand dogs that DONT bite, and that don't have problems.

People are put off getting a rescue dog, often because they are scared of something biting or attacking them, their kids, neighbours dogs, visitors etc.,

I will never rehome a dog that has attacked someone. I look at every situation carefully - but I have to be sure that if my name is associated with a dog going into a home, i'm not frightened it will attack a person. I also look very carefully at rehoming a dog that goes for other dogs - nobody wants a shredder. In today's society - when dogs are being killed in their thousands - it breaks my heart to see a good dog die because nobody will take it on. To see a dog that loves people, adores other pets and dogs and just be a dog - have to be put to sleep because there is no room, is an absolute heartbreaker.

Its sad - its not their fault, but its not our fault either. We at the rescue feel that we have a responsibility to ensure we are rehoming dogs that are safe for the public and safe for other dogs as well. Though again it breaks me up - personally - I feel its the responsible thing to have that sort of dog put to sleep. Odds are - it will bounce back into rescue - into kennels, and be even more screwed up than it was before.

Geerarffe - I know you personally could cope with many types of problem dogs - but most people dont and whilst people will often try to sort out their own dogs problems (sometimes they dont they just either pts or hand to rescue), NOBODY wants to take on a dog with issues.

Its a sad world.

pets@home · 26-07-2010, 22:43

right here goes , the dog has bitten 4 times now ,it is the lhaso apso i got from a pound ,when i picked him up he laid on the front seat of van on way back ho problems , i had been stroking him most of the way home.When i got home i picked him up to put a collar with id disc on & he just turned & latched on to my face causing me to have 10 stitches in my face ,I put this down to him being scared ,so i gave him a second chance and found him a foster home ( making them aware of his history) he had been with them5 days when he bit the womans daughter again on face, she had bent down to put him his lead on,So i fetched him back & kept him at mine for 5 mth to try to see if there was any pattern to his behaviour,in which time all i had seen was a loving dog ,sometimes stubburn, but no bites, i then had to move him to my kennels ,where he has been up to date . Friday i rehomed him with a woman that ithought would be right for him. Today she took him to her vets as she says he was rubbing his ear ,he bit the vet who has told her to get rid of him, so he is coming back tomoz, i dont know what to do, i dont want to pts him as he is a nice dog 95% of the time ,but i darent try him with anyone else if i had room i would keep him but i aint , any ideas ?

Strix · 26-07-2010, 22:51

In reply to RR - this is why we've volunteered with Beagle Welfare, to take on the 18 month olds people can't handle and try to dump. It's usually the people that are the problem, and not the dog

It's been very satisfying to be given our first 'case', and turning the situation around

That's one dog who will be staying with her original family instead of going to rescue, and a very happy family who can now love their dog

I do wish the RSPCA would do more to target behaviour through subsidised or free classes, so less dogs wind up being problematic!

Strix · 26-07-2010, 22:53

so what's his 'trigger' P@H?

cooljules · 26-07-2010, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by pets@home

right here goes , the dog has bitten 4 times now ,it is the lhaso apso i got from a pound ,when i picked him up he laid on the front seat of van on way back ho problems , i had been stroking him most of the way home.When i got home i picked him up to put a collar with id disc on & he just turned & latched on to my face causing me to have 10 stitches in my face ,I put this down to him being scared ,so i gave him a second chance and found him a foster home ( making them aware of his history) he had been with them5 days when he bit the womans daughter again on face, she had bent down to put him his lead on,So i fetched him back & kept him at mine for 5 mth to try to see if there was any pattern to his behaviour,in which time all i had seen was a loving dog ,sometimes stubburn, but no bites, i then had to move him to my kennels ,where he has been up to date . Friday i rehomed him with a woman that ithought would be right for him. Today she took him to her vets as she says he was rubbing his ear ,he bit the vet who has told her to get rid of him, so he is coming back tomoz, i dont know what to do, i dont want to pts him as he is a nice dog 95% of the time ,but i darent try him with anyone else if i had room i would keep him but i aint , any ideas ?

im not one for beating around the bush, but i would say pts, something is wrong with him, and with no pattern of reason to attack, it couldnt be trusted. i got nipped the other week by a dog, but it was a nip to say dont touch me there, i then found out it was beaten in that spot........

Evei · 26-07-2010, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by pets@home

right here goes , the dog has bitten 4 times now ,it is the lhaso apso i got from a pound ,when i picked him up he laid on the front seat of van on way back ho problems , i had been stroking him most of the way home.When i got home i picked him up to put a collar with id disc on & he just turned & latched on to my face causing me to have 10 stitches in my face ,I put this down to him being scared ,so i gave him a second chance and found him a foster home ( making them aware of his history) he had been with them5 days when he bit the womans daughter again on face, she had bent down to put him his lead on,So i fetched him back & kept him at mine for 5 mth to try to see if there was any pattern to his behaviour,in which time all i had seen was a loving dog ,sometimes stubburn, but no bites, i then had to move him to my kennels ,where he has been up to date . Friday i rehomed him with a woman that ithought would be right for him. Today she took him to her vets as she says he was rubbing his ear ,he bit the vet who has told her to get rid of him, so he is coming back tomoz, i dont know what to do, i dont want to pts him as he is a nice dog 95% of the time ,but i darent try him with anyone else if i had room i would keep him but i aint , any ideas ?

In this case it seems to be new people around his neck/ears, it might be something that he has to build up trust with. Personally I would pts. You would never forgive yourself if hurt anyone else and it's not worth thinking about how it could affect a young person if they were scarred on their face. I would take the vets advice and I think you know yourself but you're too attached

medusa · 26-07-2010, 23:11

I'm afraid that if a dog so small could produce wounds needing stitches on a face and it's not an isolated event then there's no way I could trust that animal in a new home.

How would you defend yourself legally if he shredded a child's face and in court when they sued you it comes out that you knew that the dog was likely to do this sort of damage yet still homed him?

People are of the firm opinion that lhasas and shihtzus are soft and cuddly all the time and could you ever be certain that the adopters would take it seriously that he is a danger in potential attacks?

One attack like that is bad enough, but if he's repeated it then I think you already know what people are going to advise you to do.

Moonbird · 26-07-2010, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evei

In this case it seems to be new people around his neck/ears, it might be something that he has to build up trust with. Personally I would pts. You would never forgive yourself if hurt anyone else and it's not worth thinking about how it could affect a young person if they were scarred on their face. I would take the vets advice and I think you know yourself but you're too attached

I am sorry P@H but I absolutely agree with everything that Evei says, some dogs really don't like anyone near their face and obviously this is true of him, he also sounds like he has been allowed too much his own way in the past and now thinks that what he says goes, but that is not good for any dog or their owner.

It sounds like you are not going to be able to cure this dog of his behaviour and even if you do is it really fair to risk someone else?

The trouble is with a cute little dog like a lhaso apso, you are going to find that people will want to stroke him and children are going to want to cuddle him, its too risky to rehome him in my opinion...it only leaves you one thing to do really...sorry

nicholls5 · 26-07-2010, 23:16

I think you may have answered your own question when you said " i darent try him with anyone else", so what is the option, kennels?, for how long?. N you know how much I love dogs but step back from the situation and ask yourself would you rehome this dog to your best friend / loved one?. Whatever you decide, we are there for youx

Evei · 26-07-2010, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strix

In reply to RR - this is why we've volunteered with Beagle Welfare, to take on the 18 month olds people can't handle and try to dump. It's usually the people that are the problem, and not the dog

It's been very satisfying to be given our first 'case', and turning the situation around

That's one dog who will be staying with her original family instead of going to rescue, and a very happy family who can now love their dog

I do wish the RSPCA would do more to target behaviour through subsidised or free classes, so less dogs wind up being problematic!

I have a lot of respect for people that manage to turn dogs around. It's so time consuming though! D's taken over two years and is now near enough perfect (well as good as I think he will ever be) with careful management. I'm not sure there is enough people to foster dogs who could spend that time when they could be fostering a number of dogs in that amount of time.

I suppose you just have to pick the dogs carefully with the issues that they have