[sheffco]

I live alone - suffer from insomnia - like to drink Scotch - watch TV for company - join in a few discussions on the forum.
I have quite a few theories of the reasons behind both local and international events.
Anyone else have similar ideas?
Sheff

[Lickszz]

Originally posted by "sheffco"

I live alone - suffer from insomnia - like to drink Scotch - watch TV for company - join in a few discussions on the forum.
I have quite a few theories of the reasons behind both local and international events.
Anyone else have similar ideas?
Sheff

Care to elaborate on some of these theories?

[sheffco]

The latest "World Threatening disease" SARS - this could be used as a simple and so far unique way of spreading "Biological Warfare" - Take some Suicide matyrs - infect them, and book them on flights to Coalition countries. - - So what if they are refused entry, the disease is spread on the aircraft! and enters the country with innocent fellow travellers.

Some of my other theories are a bit way out, and I think the moderator would censor them. - - Aids and the spread of it.

Coca Cola - I used to think that the CIA were tinkering with the formular - then building plants in eastern block countries where it was the muslims favourite drink.

My theory on the reconstruction of Iraq - posted on "War in Iraq" is proving to be quite prophetic - in the light of Colin Powels talk at the UN.

[Sidla]

I don't believe than man has walked on the moon.

[sheffco]

I think it is written in the Koran - - That Muslimism shall last until man sets foot on the moon?

[Lickszz]

Originally posted by "Sidla"

I don't believe than man has walked on the moon.

I think the same. I think America faked it to get there before Russia.

[Phanerothyme]

Originally posted by "Lickszz"

I think the same. I think America faked it to get there before Russia.

Which of the manned missions to the moon do you think was faked? All of them? This is a joke right?

Is there any evidence to the contrary?

[sheffco]

Any of you use "Copernic" - there are 35 mentions of sites dedicated to fake or non fake landings.

Free at www.copernic.com
A good search tool.
Cheers

[Sidla]

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"

Which of the manned missions to the moon do you think was faked? All of them? This is a joke right?

No, I'm deadly serious. There's tonnes of evidence to indicate that it was most probably faked.

I also don't believe that Princess Diana is really dead.

[Lickszz]

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"

Which of the manned missions to the moon do you think was faked? All of them? This is a joke right?

Is there any evidence to the contrary?

I am certainly not convinced about the first one. There was lots of motive to get there before Russia who seemed to be ahead of USA in the race.

[sheffco]

There are fears being voiced that if there is peace in the gulf, and eastern europe manages to join the EU, - - tens of thousands of refugees would be able to go home, and work in their own countries? We only have Africa to sort out then.

[Phanerothyme]

Originally posted by "Sidla"

No, I'm deadly serious. There's tonnes of evidence to indicate that it was most probably faked.

Kindly point me towards some
Everything I've found so far using a websearch has been risible. I'm not denying that it would be possible (just like that movie Capricorn One!) only that to keep it a secret for 30 years
and manufacture gigantic space rockets and blast them off into space,
and then have some radio relay planted on the moon by a robot so all the radio hams can point their antennas at the moon and receive signals from the crew.
and then cooking up half a tonne of moon rock and dust samples to distribute to scientific institutes all over the world

Originally posted by "http://www.space.com/news/SI_moon_hoax-1.html"


Unlike Earth rocks, the lunar samples are totally devoid of water, even within their crystal structures. Their chemical compositions, in particular the ratio of iron and manganese, set them apart from any of Earth?s native rocks. They are extraordinarily ancient, some almost as old as the solar system. Perhaps, most importantly, their surfaces show the effects of bombardment by high-speed micrometeorites and subatomic particles from the solar wind?neither of which can affect terrestrial rocks because our atmosphere screens them out. These so-called "zap pits" would have also been wiped out had the rocks fallen to Earth as lunar meteorites; the tremendous heat generated by their high-velocity passage through our atmosphere would have erased any such surface features.

and fake 32,000 pictures from the apollo missions

amongst other things.
The moon landings happened, really.
ttfn

[sheffco]

If all the proposed countries manage to get into the EU - this will give France and Germany a load of minor votes to seek when proposing to line their own pockets - as they do with the UN minorities

[Sidla]

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"

and manufacture gigantic space rockets and blast them off into space,
and then have some radio relay planted on the moon by a robot so all the radio hams can point their antennas at the moon and receive signals from the crew.
and then cooking up half a tonne of moon rock and dust samples to distribute to scientific institutes all over the world

How does anybody know that the radio signals came from the moon? They know because NASA has told them. They couldn't have put man on the moon, because it's not possible. NASA will tell you it is possible, but they would say that, wouldn't they? Most of the people at NASA don't know the truth anyway, there was probably only a very small number of people in on it. The evidence could quite easily be faked, but because it comes from NASA people automatically believe that it's real because people are stupid and believe whatever NASA tells them.

How does anybody know what moon rock is like anyway? If the moon rock is real (which I doubt) then it would have been collected with a scoop and return probe.

I also found this recently:

Originally posted by "BBC Online"

In September, Buzz Aldrin, the second man to walk on the Moon, punched a man in the face after he had confronted the former astronaut at a Beverly Hills hotel.

Bart Sibrel - who has made a film questioning the Apollo Moon missions - had demanded that Mr Aldrin, 72, swear on the Bible that he had in fact walked on the Moon.

Prosecutors declined to file assault charges against Mr Aldrin.

That speaks volumes to me.

See also:
http://www.geocities.com/apollofacts/
http://www.geocities.com/nasascam/

The truth is we'll never know the truth. If any evidence comes out to prove that man hasn't been to the moon it is immediately covered up by NASA.

[Tampa USA]

I love this topic!

- Faked lunar landing? I've heard this one but find it hard to keep everyone that was involved quiet for this long. I must admitt many of those pictures supposedly taken on different areas on the moon have very simlilar backgrounds.

- I am a preterist but many feel that the EU will result in the apocolypse starting with the "beast" from the book of revelations. Will the EU develop a system of stamping 666 on you?

- UFO accounts from actuall residents of Roswell New Mexico tell stories of aliens roaming the wreckage after wards. One fireman , recently, tells stories of shooting and killing one out of fear when it approached him for help.

- The lost city of Atlantis - the lost city was supposedly found when a diver, who does not know his axact location, went deep into an opening on the ocean's bottom and decended into a "room of pure gold" and beauty beyond description... He was diving out beyond the supposed raod in the sea that many feel leads to the city of Atlantis. proving Atlantis would result in re-writing history. The Atlantien civilization was said to be far more advanced than any at the time..

- Carbon dating shows that the Great pyramid of Giza actually dates back to the supposed beggining of human existance. We'll never get a true account as this would destroy many popular theories including evolution. How could humans have built them then? Does this show that man was put here by beings from another planet? Are we an experiment? I remember just a few years ago scientist were always baffled that neither human bodies nor Egyption writing were found in these great structures. FACT: Writings from many kings and leaders of Egypt, including Akunaten, refered to the Pyramids as mysterious ancient structures. Why did they not know who built them? Out of all the stories, gods, heroes, customs, beliefs, religions and folklore that were passed on generation after generation in Egypt why are there no accounts of how the Pyramids of Giza were built? The pyramids seemed to have existed already in all writings from the many dynasties. Even the ancient ones...

- A more recent discovery of another dead sea scroll declares that man should not worship GOD through religion and that everyone's home is GOD's home. Supposedly, the Vatican, big business, refuses to recognise it as religious law although it was written in the same references and credibility as the other dead sea scrolls.

- Great Flood stories were told in ancient Egypt. The Bible's version are told almost exactly the way the multiple accounts were written in ancient Egypt. Problem is, the version told in Egypt occured much, much earlier.

- That the Philadelphia experiment was true. Accounts from many people involved with this experiment told stories of the ship's invisibilty. Others told about how when the ship re-appeared the crew would slip into alternate "realities" but most were embedded in the ship's hull. Their "being" blended into the metal. Imagine the ship and them as one. I am from the Philadelphia area and I have heard many first hand accounts on this and I must admitt its still a hard pill to swallow.

- Dolphin men - During WWII Hitler and the US seperatly researched combining the DNA of man with that of a Dolphin. Stories on this are bone chilling! Some say thet the US was successful and have an army of Aqua men to this very day. Macdill Airforce Base or CamCom in Florida have many sea born projects witnessed by many. Some say that there are fishlike US soldiers that can swim for miles with little surfacing and can carry out missions as they blend in to the human population using skin color injections. Legs like you and I but a streamlined torso and head. All of genious IQ.

- Men In Black - while there is little doubt that the MIB are actually secret members of the CIA, their mission is to stomp out and disprove any proof that would lead to the discovery of TOP Secret information around the world. Most would relate them to the dispelling of UFO accounts but they have been involved with erasing miracles events, evidence of Ancient civilations being far more advanced than modern man and obolishing any other evidence that would go against what governments want us to know.

- The idea that sub atomic particles can slip into other dimensions. Recently, TIME ran an article about this find as factual. With the exception of Metaphysics how can this be explained? No attention has been focused on this because many feel it would cause a tear in modern belief systems. These particles have been thought to remove itself from the "here and now" to reappear in the "there and now." The crasiest part is that when they reappear in the "here and now" they show up in a different location!!!!! Light does not reflect on subatomic particles so one can conclude that energy (invisible) is indeed active at the subatomic level. Does this not backup the possibility that the human "Life source" or "soul" is entirely trasferrable? Can what we consider heaven be another dimension of time and space? Also, ghosts are another possibilty backed by this finding. Since energy is constant and can never die out, where does our "life source" energy go?

[Tony Ruscoe]

If you've never seen this site, you might find it interesting. They're not all conspiracies... but I think some of you might have heard some of these "urban legends" on this website.

http://www.snopes.com

In particular:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/moontruth.asp

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/onesmall.htm

[Phanerothyme]

Originally posted by "Sidla"

How does anybody know that the radio signals came from the moon?

Because with a directional antenna, you have to point it at the source fof the signal. When that source rises and sets with the moon, you can be pretty sure the source is on the moon. Also the Apollo missions installed laser reflectors on the moon that are still in use today to make extremely accurate measurements of the moon's distance from the earth.

they know because NASA has told them. They couldn't have put man on the moon, because it's not possible.

Why is it impossible? Do you actually know anything about this at all, or are you just taking other people's word for it?

NASA will tell you it is possible, but they would say that, wouldn't they? Most of the people at NASA don't know the truth anyway, there was probably only a very small number of people in on it.

How many people does it take to make a film, build the models, build the worlds largest soundstage, launch gigantic rockets without anyone on board, send radio transmitters to the moon to fake radio broadcasts, fool everyone and their instruments in mission control? And there were what 6 or seven manned missions to the moon. Thousands. Not one of them has ever said anything that would indicate that even one of the moon missions was a fake.

The evidence could quite easily be faked, but because it comes from NASA people automatically believe that it's real because people are stupid and believe whatever NASA tells them.

Explain how to fake moon rock.
Half a tonne of moon rock and dust samples were collected. This stuff came from the moon, and has been independently studied by geologists from all over the world. It looks exactly the same as the samples of moon rock collected by Russian probes. It's geological profile, age, radioactive activity and surface features clearly indicate the material is not from this planet.

How does anybody know what moon rock is like anyway? If the moon rock is real (which I doubt) then it would have been collected with a scoop and return probe.

Why do you doubt it is real? Even if the missions were a fake you readily accept that a probe would be able to go to the moon and collect rock. So it's impossible to send a man to the moon, yet perfectly possible to send a probe?

I also found this recently:

That speaks volumes to me.

Imagine that you trained for years and risked your life on the first manned moon mission, and then some **** comes up to talking about how the moon landings were a hoax, and starts demanding that you swear on the bible that you had done what you and billions of other people said you did.
I'd punch the stupid cretin too(if I was half the man Aldrin is, which I'm not)
And if it was a fake, why would Aldrin have a problem swearing on the bible, if he'd been able to lie about it on the other 50,000 occasions he's been asked to talk about it? If it's such a big secret, then swearing on the bible wouldn't be much of a problem.

See also:
http://www.geocities.com/apollofacts/
http://www.geocities.com/nasascam/

Well you could look at those, or your could look at these:
http://www.clavius.org/
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missions/apollo15_touchdown_photos_010427.html
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/iangoddard/moon01.htm
http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/NOT_faked/

The truth is we'll never know the truth. If any evidence comes out to prove that man hasn't been to the moon it is immediately covered up by NASA.

The truth is we'll never know the truth?
ROFLMAO How can that be true? LOL!
The truth is that the moon landings happened. The events are massively corroborated from dozens of different perspectives including radio triangulation, geological evidence, photographic evidence, video evidence, and personal testimony. They all support the thesis that man has been to the moon.

The evidence showing them up to be a hoax is based on wilful ignorance of physics and unhelpful facts (like the Australian receiver that actually relayed the video pictures - a big directional antenna pointed at the moon, receiving video images transmitted by the mission) and wishful interpretation of pictures and video footage.

Either way , I believe a Japanese orbiter, the SELENE mission is due to arrive at the moon this year to undertake a complete and highly detailed global map of the moon in all spectra. The moon landing sites will be clearly visible.

What would it take to convince you Sidla? Or would you refused to be convinced whatever the evidence?

[Sidla]

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"


Because with a directional antenna, you have to point it at the source fof the signal. When that source rises and sets with the moon, you can be pretty sure the source is on the moon. Also the Apollo missions installed laser reflectors on the moon that are still in use today to make extremely accurate measurements of the moon's distance from the earth.

That doesn't prove anything. NASA could quite easily have bounced broardcasts off the moon, or ever planted a transmitter on the moon.

Why is it impossible? Do you actually know anything about this at all, or are you just taking other people's word for it?

I don't know whether it's possible or not, I just don't believe it is.

How many people does it take to make a film, build the models, build the worlds largest soundstage, launch gigantic rockets without anyone on board, send radio transmitters to the moon to fake radio broadcasts, fool everyone and their instruments in mission control? And there were what 6 or seven manned missions to the moon. Thousands. Not one of them has ever said anything that would indicate that even one of the moon missions was a fake.

The amount of people involved would have been minimized and they're kept quiet by paying them a hell of a lot of money each year.

Explain how to fake moon rock.
Half a tonne of moon rock and dust samples were collected. This stuff came from the moon, and has been independently studied by geologists from all over the world. It looks exactly the same as the samples of moon rock collected by Russian probes. It's geological profile, age, radioactive activity and surface features clearly indicate the material is not from this planet.

The moon rock could quite easily have been collected by scoop and return probes.

Why do you doubt it is real? Even if the missions were a fake you readily accept that a probe would be able to go to the moon and collect rock. So it's impossible to send a man to the moon, yet perfectly possible to send a probe?

It wouldn't be possible for humans to survive the trip to the moon. It could quite easily be achieved by machinery.

Imagine that you trained for years and risked your life on the first manned moon mission, and then some t**t comes up to talking about how the moon landings were a hoax, and starts demanding that you swear on the bible that you had done what you and billions of other people said you did.
I'd punch the stupid cretin too(if I was half the man Aldrin is, which I'm not)
And if it was a fake, why would Aldrin have a problem swearing on the bible, if he'd been able to lie about it on the other 50,000 occasions he's been asked to talk about it? If it's such a big secret, then swearing on the bible wouldn't be much of a problem.

There would be no reason to refuse to swear on the bible if it really happened.

Well you could look at those, or your could look at these:
http://www.clavius.org/
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missions/apollo15_touchdown_photos_010427.html
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/iangoddard/moon01.htm
http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/NOT_faked/

I've seen loads of evidence on both sides of the argument and I find the hoax theory the most convincing. Even NASA have a page dedicated to 'prove' conspiracy theorists wrong! Why would they even entertain the notion if they actually happened?

The truth is we'll never know the truth?
ROFLMAO How can that be true? LOL!

I already explained that! If ever some evidence comes out to prove that man has never been to the moon it's instantly covered up by NASA. Look at this for example:

FACT: The lunar rover had inflatable tires which would have exploded if pre-inflated, and there was no air on the Moon to inflate them. Pro Apollo NUTTERS claim the rover had solid wire mesh tires. Yes the rover in the museum had these fitted in the mid 70's when they realized pneumatic tires could not have functioned on the Moon. NASA have had 33 years in which to clear up the plainly obvious mistakes within the Apollo program. Each time some one brings up a query NASA correct it and say nothing, ie, they cannot say why the anomaly was there in the first place. Anyway I have pictures of the rover supposedly on the Moon and it has the SAME tires AND tire valves as the one they used at KSC. In other words it is the SAME one. Early close up pictures of the rover on Internet have CHANGED since the blunder was exposed on this web site.

Either way , I believe a Japanese orbiter, the SELENE mission is due to arrive at the moon this year to undertake a complete and highly detailed global map of the moon in all spectra. The moon landing sites will be clearly visible.

What would it take to convince you Sidla? Or would you refused to be convinced whatever the evidence?

If the Japanese find evidence of the landing site and the American flag on the moon then I'll believe. If I'm proven wrong then I'll admit defeat and look like a bit of a fool, but if I'm right then it's a big 'I told you so' and a big smug feeling for me

[sheffco]

I expect they will find the remains of the Seismic Exploration Crew I took up there in 1991.
Whenever there is an expedition to the remotest places on earth - they find signs that the doodlebuggers have been there and got the T shirt.

[Phanerothyme]

Originally posted by "Sidla"

That doesn't prove anything. NASA could quite easily have bounced broardcasts off the moon, or ever planted a transmitter on the moon.

OK so we have established that something was on the moon at the time of the first and subsequent moon landings

I don't know whether it's possible or not, I just don't believe it is.

But you must have some reason for believing that travel to the moon is impossible for a human. What is it?

The amount of people involved would have been minimized and they're kept quiet by paying them a hell of a lot of money each year.

Really? How much? To whom?

The moon rock could quite easily have been collected by scoop and return probes.

So we've agreed that it is real moon rock then? That's progress.

It wouldn't be possible for humans to survive the trip to the moon. It could quite easily be achieved by machinery.

So you keep asserting, but why do you believe that humans could not survive a trip to the moon?

There would be no reason to refuse to swear on the bible if it really happened.

Unless the guy was really insulting you and the thousands of people who sweated blood to make the moon landings a reality. If Buzz Aldrin had help up his hand and said "Sorry they were faked" then you'd have a point. But this is Buzz Aldrin punching a t w a t who'd been hounding him at public appearances, not evidence that the moon landings were faked.

Well you could look at those, or your could look at these:
http://www.clavius.org/
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missions/apollo15_touchdown_photos_010427.html
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/iangoddard/moon01.htm
http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/NOT_faked/

I've seen loads of evidence on both sides of the argument and I find the hoax theory the most convincing.
[/quote]
Yes, but you don't say why? Is it because you don't really know, just that you'd like to believe they were faked?

Even NASA have a page dedicated to 'prove' conspiracy theorists wrong! Why would they even entertain the notion if they actually happened?

Because this hoax has been circulating since the early 70s, and eventually, after 30 years of flat-earthers claiming they never happened, they decided that enough was enough and decided to debunk it once and for all.

I already explained that! If ever some evidence comes out to prove that man has never been to the moon it's instantly covered up by NASA.

No, what I meant is:
If we'll never know the truth, then how can that be true, if we'll never know it. Xeno and Epiminides would be proud of you.

Look at this for example:

FACT: The lunar rover had inflatable tires which would have exploded if pre-inflated, and there was no air on the Moon to inflate them. Pro Apollo NUTTERS claim the rover had solid wire mesh tires. Yes the rover in the museum had these fitted in the mid 70's when they realized pneumatic tires could not have functioned on the Moon. NASA have had 33 years in which to clear up the plainly obvious mistakes within the Apollo program. Each time some one brings up a query NASA correct it and say nothing, ie, they cannot say why the anomaly was there in the first place. Anyway I have pictures of the rover supposedly on the Moon and it has the SAME tires AND tire valves as the one they used at KSC. In other words it is the SAME one. Early close up pictures of the rover on Internet have CHANGED since the blunder was exposed on this web site.

That would be fine if your FACT wasn't actually a TOTAL UNTRUTH. Show me your photo of the lunar rover with inflatable wheels please? Here is the rover from Apollo 15 on the surface of the moon. Note the mesh wheels:
Picture of Lunar Rover

If the Japanese find evidence of the landing site and the American flag on the moon then I'll believe. If I'm proven wrong then I'll admit defeat and look like a bit of a fool, but if I'm right then it's a big 'I told you so' and a big smug feeling for me

IMHO you look a bit of a fool already for falling for this claptrap. And surely if SELENE does find the landing site, it will be because NASA paid them to fake the pictures right?

The web sites you referenced produce nothing better than poor scans of poorly reproduced photos for evidence, plus a lot of unsupported speculation and conjecture, prefaced by the word FACT as if that makes some kind of difference.