Originally posted by algy Covenant with Death is about the Sheffield pals, thinly disguised (Redmires becomes Blackmires etc). I think John Harris was a journalist in Sheffield when or just before he wrote it, but I'm not certain. Either way it's a good read.
Hi Algy,
Thanks for this! I thought as much when reading it. My Father In Law lives in Edinburgh and when we visited he was aksing me about the environs of Sheffield and we gradually concluded that that it was Sheffield being written about.
I became interested in WW1 after learning about my own grandfather and following the career of Percy Topliss, the 'Monocled Mutineer', who was born not far away from where I was bought up in Nottinghamshire.
Joe
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to K.Seavill. Will add him on my list to do when I go to the Local Studies in Sheffield next. My dad still lives in Sheffield so I go quite frequently. Will send info If I get any straight to your web address.
Many thanks indeed for this kind offer. Any evidence of Godfrey's war record/time with the Pals appreciated. I would like the CWGC to recognise his contribution/sacrifice.
Does anyone reading this thread know if the majority of Sheffield men would have joined the Pals (Yorks & Lancs regiments) at the start of WW1, or would there have been other regiments recruiting in Sheffield at this time?
i beleve the Sheffield Pals battalion was part of the 31st division of the fouth army along with hull,leeds,barnsley,accrington and hull pals .They attacked on the first of july but were mown down by machine gun fire mainly in no mans land .A very few managed to reach serre itself but were soon wiped out. Serre was to stay in german hands until the german retreat of 1917. Both my grandfathers were there in 1916 , one was gassed and died a few years later. The other lived into his 80's and returned for a visit in 1976. I've been many times since , it gets hold of you.
Many thanks indeed for this kind offer. Any evidence of Godfrey's war record/time with the Pals appreciated. I would like the CWGC to recognise his contribution/sacrifice.
Does anyone reading this thread know if the majority of Sheffield men would have joined the Pals (Yorks & Lancs regiments) at the start of WW1, or would there have been other regiments recruiting in Sheffield at this time?
kseavill
A large number of the pals were students from Sheffield University, with a large number of academics, prfessionals, managers etc, as well as ordinary working men. A lot of men in Sheffield would have been in reserved occupations in the armaments industry for part of the war. The West Riding Company(?) of the Royal Engineers also recruited locally, and they followed the Pals into the camp at Redmires, using the training area on Hill 60 above the dams. Their Territorial successors are still I believe based at Somme Barracks in Sheffield, though I may be out of date
__________________
"Jennifer Aniston goes to Malibu and shouts at the sea. I drink Malibu and shout at pigeons." Bill Bailey
Idon't know much about my grt uncle. It was just as If he needed to be found. Nothing has come down through the family at all. My Granma[his neice never mentioned it as I was about 16 when she died and my Dad didn't know. Family history certainly has a lot to answer for. I was donig someone a good deed by looking for an inscription in Burngreave Cemetry records and found my family there with John Henry Kelk burial listed for the 1st ww. What goes around comes around!!!
Originally posted by JoeP There is a novel called 'A covenant with death' by John Harris, which my father-in-law introduced me too, which we're both convinced is about the Sheffield Pals - there is a lot of background stuff in the novel that almost certainly points to Sheffield as the origin of the unit that is described in the pages.
Just found a bit more about John Harris Joe, he was from Rotherham, was a journalist and cartoonist on the Sheffield Telegraph in the 1950s when one of his early wartime action novels The Sea Shall Not Have Them was made into a highly rated film . So he knew the story of the Pals pretty well
__________________
"Jennifer Aniston goes to Malibu and shouts at the sea. I drink Malibu and shout at pigeons." Bill Bailey
If anyone is interested two of the team investigating the trenches at Redmires are giving a talk about it to a meeting of Friends of the Porter Valley, at Bents Green Methodist Church Hall at 7.30 on the 4th May. Non-members welcome, entry £2.
__________________
"Jennifer Aniston goes to Malibu and shouts at the sea. I drink Malibu and shout at pigeons." Bill Bailey
The following may be of interest to you (taken from a message board I belong to):
"I have noted with interest the good advice offered in response
to your
question. However, I feel that I should point out that it is
not necessary
to visit Kew to inspect these army records; they are also
available for
inspection via your local LDS Family History Centre. You do not
mention the
name of your ancestor, but as you are researching the name
HUGHES, I will
use this as an example.
WO 361 Records. These are known as the "Unburnt documents".
These files are organised alphabetically by surname and given
name.
Information includes unit name and number, birthplace, age at
time of
enlistment and name and address of next of kin and may include
names of
parents, spouses and children. The surname HUGHES is contained
in boxes
numbered from 5698 to 5733 inclusive.
For the names
Alfred C. HUGHES to Burnett HUGHES, your require LDS film
2028744
Cecil C. HUGHES to Douglas H. HUGHES, film 2028745
Edgar F. HUGHES to Ernest W. HUGHES, film 2028746
Evan HUGHES to George HUGHES, film 2029488
George HUGHES to Henry HUGHES, film 2029489
Henry HUGHES to James HUGHES, film 2029490
James HUGHES to John HUGHES, film 2029498
John HUGHES to John Joseph HUGHES, film 2029499
John Joseph HUGHES to Louis B. HUGHES, film 2029500
Louis O. HUGHES to Pryce HUGHES, film 2029501
Ralph HUGHES to Samuel HUGHES, film 2029502
Samuel HUGHES to Thomas HUGHES, film 2029503
Thomas HUGHES to William HUGHES, film 2029504
William HUGHES to William H. HUGHES, film 2029505
William J. HUGHES to Wynddyn HUGHES, film 2029506
WO 363 Records. These are known as the "Burnt Documents".
About 70% of these records were destroyed during the Blitz in
World War ll.
Many of the remaining damaged records can be read. To the best
of my
knowledge, those filmed so far, are: -
A-E; F; N-O, Q and T, which suggests that the surname HUGHES has
not been
filmed or maybe even salvaged.
WO 364 Records. These are known as the "Third Collation", which
is made up
of misplaced records, which could not be returned to their
correct location.
These files are organised alphabetically by surname and given
name. The
films you would require are as follows: -
Walter HUDSON to John HUGHES, film 2112568
John HUGHES to Edward Thomas HULATT, film 2112569.
Many thanks for your detailed reply about the 'burnt' war records and local family history centres.
I am actually searching for the war record of Godfrey COWLISHAW, son of Thomas Henry and Harriett Cowlishaw of Manor, Sheffield, brother of Cyril Cowlishaw (whose war record I have located).
I think someone else on this thread must have been searching for HUGHES.
Many thanks anyway, and I will try to follow the advice you give in furthering my own searches.
Please send me an email address where I can chat with you. We are quite closely related, My grandfather on my mothers side was Frank Cowlishaw, the brother or Harrold.
I am living in Tanzania at the moment, but by chance I have a number of the Cowlishaw records with me. This includes the Babtism records from the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel in Sheffield from 1858 to 1966
Just to make sure that we have the right tree, I can give you the following information that you can check with yours.
Thomas Henry Cowlishaw was married to Harriett and had the following children
1883 Elizabeth
1885 Godfrey
1887 Herbert
1889 Albert
1892 Cyril
1895 John
1899 Harrold (married Bessie Edna)
1902 Frank ( my Grandfather )
1905 Ena
Harrold was a school teacher. I believe you have an uncle David cowlishaw who married a Portuguse girl?
Does anyone, or has anyone ever heard of an airfield or the like at Redmires during WW1. I heard somewhere that there was one, but cant find any reference to it.
Does anyone, or has anyone ever heard of an airfield or the like at Redmires during WW1. I heard somewhere that there was one, but cant find any reference to it.
Glynn.
The field next to the army camp was occasionally used by aircraft, but I don't think any were based there.
__________________
"Jennifer Aniston goes to Malibu and shouts at the sea. I drink Malibu and shout at pigeons." Bill Bailey
I can't remember off hand, but I'll try to find it. It was with some information about airfields around Sheffield, mostly about Norton, but there was a mention of redmires as well. I'll see what I can find.
__________________
"Jennifer Aniston goes to Malibu and shouts at the sea. I drink Malibu and shout at pigeons." Bill Bailey
Hi Glynn, still can't remember where I saw it, but I've done a bit of digging in the local Studies library, and come up with the following:
"The old racecourse adjacent to the Redmires camp had, as early as 1912, been used as a landing strip by pioneer aviators. Gustav Hamel, who flew the first ever airmail (between Hendon & Windsor Castle in September 1910) arrived at Redmires from Buxton in August 1912 and spent 3 days giving exhibition flights. On Whit Tuesday 1914, Sheffield aviator Marcus Manton, then only 19 years old, gave flying demonstartions to some 8,000 spectators.
The use of Redmires airstrip as a military airfield was soon realised, and between March & October 1916, it was frequently used by 'A' Flight, No 33 Squadron, RFC, flying BE2c aircraft. No 33 Squadron had its headquarters at Gainsborough, and was established to defend the industrial areas of South Yorkshire and the north Midlands against enemy airship attack. Redmires was one of the Squadron's night landing fields. It ceased to function as an airfield during the war." This is from "From Bailey to Bailey" by S. Johnson. It's out of print but I found a copy in the Local Studies Library. There's also info about a WW1 airfield at Coal Aston, and RAF Norton in the same book. PM me if it's any interest and I'll send it, since it's not really to do with this thread. I also remember hearing a caller on Radio Sheffield telling a tale about when he was a child in the 1920's he was sent to the camp which was now a smallpox isolation hospital. One day a plane landed in the next field, and the kids who were allowed out ran to the wall to watch. The pilot, who was obviously using an old wartime map, came over and asked whether this was the Redmires Army camp, and having got the reply "No mester, it's a smallpox hospital" ran back to his plane and took off rapidly!
__________________
"Jennifer Aniston goes to Malibu and shouts at the sea. I drink Malibu and shout at pigeons." Bill Bailey
