Life on lead - do you think it's good enough?

Wilder Wine · 17-09-2009, 09:26

There are several threads here discussing whether we should let our dogs off lead or not, where to do it, how to behave when seeing another dog etc. I know a few owners who never ever let their dog off lead either because of some real or not so real behaviour problems or their belief that the breed itself can't be recall-trained.

Some posts here also seem to support the "never off lead in public places" idea. My question is: if a dog is only let running free at home in the garden and is strictly on lead everywhere else at all times - how do you think it will affect the dog's life. How can one make sure that their dog can socialize or even just get enough excercise and mental stimulation.

I don't think that this is an easy question, besides, I don't think it's possible to teach a dog proper distant control by attending only indoor, small group basic obedience classes but I often have the feeling that many dog owners simply give up on training and choose to keep their dog on lead forever. Do you think it's good enough for the dog?

Opinions, please.

Cheers,
WW

claire1976 · 17-09-2009, 09:34

I personally believe all dogs should have at least 30 mins off lead exercise a day. In an ideal world there would be 'safe' places to do this for all dogs but I appreciate some dogs cannot be let off their leads for one reason or another.
I own 4 rescue dogs and attended classes with them all, recall is extremely important and can be taught at any age but with varying degrees of success. I would not let any of my dogs off the lead if I did not think I had control over their recall or was concerned about their behaviour towards other dogs or people.
I do feel sad for a dog who spends it's walks on a lead, especially dogs like mine (springers) as they thrive on running around, I could walk my springers on the lead for hours and hours and it wouldn't be sufficient exercise. It's not just the running it's the ability to sniff things out and explore places as nature intended.
There is no right or wrong answer to the OP question as there are some dogs that would clearly be a danger off the lead but ideally there would be an enclosed area where these dogs could be exercised safely. I appreciate that's something that is unlikely to ever be available!

Strix · 17-09-2009, 09:34

All dogs are different, and what suits one does not suit another

Personally I get fed up with 'one size fits all' theories on dogs

The same people who make the most noise about dogs having more freedom are usually the ones who have barely any appropriate control of their own dog, or who scream blue murder if a dog they deem to be aggressive takes the hump with their unruly animal

There are members on here who have worked VERY hard to rectify problems their rescue dog has come with, and if being confined to a lead for the time being is the only alternative to being issued a destruction order - what could possibly be the problem with that?

Wilder Wine · 17-09-2009, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strix

There are members on here who have worked VERY hard to rectify problems their rescue dog has come with, and if being confined to a lead for the time being is the only alternative to being issued a destruction order - what could possibly be the problem with that?

Obviously nothing. Maybe I should have emphasized that I never meant to dismiss anyone's effort to rehabilitate a problem dog and never meant that it's ALWAYS wrong to keep a dog on lead.

WW

Lotti · 17-09-2009, 09:59

As I've said previously. If the dog needs to be on a lead, then fair enough. It stresses Eddy out far more to be meeting other dogs than it does to be kept away from them, due to his history. I worked very hard with him and he was able to greet other dogs nicely or recall to me when he saw one (depending on the situation).

However, he then started to go a little senile, his eyes and ears aren't what they used to be and basically, the momet you unclip the lead that's the connection gone. You may as well not be there (often this is the case when he's on the lead too actually - there is often no interaction between him and I!).

Now that he can't see/hear as well as he used to, he gets very anxious about dogs approaching him and the lead makes that worse - but there's nothing I can do about that.

I do try to keep getting him meeting dogs in a controlled manner as he's ok with that and he does enjoy socialising with other dogs a lot - but not in the way most dogs do on a park when they just bound up, he needs introducing properly.

He is 14.5 years old and doesn't require as much exercise as he once did (I did only get him aged 11.5 years so he's never been as active as a young dog the whole time I've had him). He does however, get offlead if we can find an empty tennis/basketball courts that is secure.

My youngest goes off the lead and whilst I've had problems with her in the past (adopting my older dog made her very nervous as he was unsocialised, she had phantom pregnancies which freaked her out and she was attacked a couple of times - once from behind and then started refuse to turn her back on another dog) we're over them and she's really coming on now - her confidence is tons better than it was and she's much better with other dogs and now even people - she used to just avoid people, especially children as she had bad experiences with children too.

I've worked very, very hard but I know it would've been 10 times harder trying to do it on a lead. And I'm pretty sure she'd still have issues if she was stuck on a lead all the time.

Of course I agree there are times dogs should be kept onlead - but I also believe there are times that dogs can and perhaps should be offlead, it just depends when those times are for those particular dogs.

I genuinely believe it would be cruelty to keep my youngest on a lead all the time - she communicates very well with other dogs, she has good recall, she doesn't bother people (she used to! But I think we've got her past her picnic scrounging days - amazingly) and she's generally well mannered. I feel that denying her offlead time would be denying her a basic animal right to express herself (appropriately).

I haven't given up on Eddy - far from it, I still work with him all the time, but I'm no fool and with fading brain cells, eyesight and hearing I don't believe for a moment he'll ever get to the same stage as Takara! Not to mention being undersocialised for 11 years of his life and having been attacked at least three times that I know about.

I do think that people need to take more responsibility for their dogs, but I think sticking a rope around it's neck isn't the only way to do that.

I think it's a really tough one because you see a lot of puppies going upto dogs like mine, who will tolerate puppies/dogs as long as they're polite but will also communicate very well and in a very ritualised, doggy manner that the erratic, inappropriate/unruly behaviour isn't appropriate and I think that's a good thing. It's how pups learn and my youngest learned from a fantastic black labrador who would put her in her place in a way dogs do that isn't aggressive - it's appropriate.

However, you also see puppies run upto adult dogs who aren't quite as good at communicating whether it's through a lack of socialisation or over training or simply the wrong disposition and people say 'oh they're dogs - they'll sort it out' and in actual fact, it's not a good match and it can then mess up the puppy.

The concept is right but many of the dogs are not.

So it's not that I don't believe in keeping dogs onlead when needed - far from it. I just don't believe in taking away the chance for dogs to be offlead when appropriate.

Strix · 17-09-2009, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilder Wine

Obviously nothing. Maybe I should have emphasized that I never meant to dismiss anyone's effort to rehabilitate a problem dog and never meant that it's ALWAYS wrong to keep a dog on lead.

WW

Sorry, I've probably made my point somewhat forcibly, having encountered far too many people both here and in real life with hard and fast opinions on how dogs should be or how they should be looked after

Far too many people have taken an 'attitude' with me when I've protected my on-lead beagle from their boisterous and uncontrolled monster... and then been incredibly apologetic to find out he's recovering from spinal surgery so their dog 'playing' could kill him

If people who let their dogs run free bothered to train them with some distance commands, and taught their dog to seek their permission before investigating other dogs and people, our parks and open spaces would be far safer for everybody

*Peaches* · 17-09-2009, 15:54

If I gave my dogs 30 minutes off lead exercise a day they'd have back issues by the time they were 2.

Mine get off lead exercise, but in very short bursts.

willman · 17-09-2009, 16:05

I don't care what anyone else thinks or does. If other dogs are around i put the beast back on a lead - no one wants 30kg of dog pawing at them. Unfortunately some training is hard to break and no socialisation on or off the lead is still an uphill battle to combat, he will recall but i need to get his attenion super duper quickly.
I put none of the other dogs on leads 'cos they "usually" do as they are told and if they wandered off they wouldn't do anything but sniff.
I let all my dogs run off lead when its suitable -i.e Grizedale Forest but not in the middle of Ambleside.
Dogs permenantly on a lead forget what they're bred for - you may as well carry a fluffy handbag.

willman · 17-09-2009, 16:08

With regards to length of exercise if the beast doesn't get enough proper exercise , he refuses to eat his tea.
2 x 1 n 1/2 mile walks on the lead a day ,do not prove stimulating enough for him.

Evei · 17-09-2009, 16:44

I think ideally dogs should be allowed off lead. I normally manage short burst with mine off lead and I have a very long drag lead (about 7 metres) that I can stand on quickly if I see something I know he would want to go for. His recall is great under all conditions apart from other dogs (cats, squirrels, people he is fine) and then all I can get him to do is stay and go down, which is great as long as the other dog does not continue to run up to him as he loses his nerve and will go for them. He get 2 hours of walks at least a day.

He loves running around and playing with other dogs but he cannot be approached by strange dogs or trusted if one comes onto the scene if not introduced properly (this can be as little as just having him sat next to them for a couple of minutes or a quick on lead walk together) hence he is on his lead at all other times so other dogs can be walked safely.

I sometimes think it is not much of a life but he gets off lead for a play about 3 times a week and sometimes on walks if I have a clear veiw of things in the distance. In the end it better than being pts through damaging another dog.

lyndix · 17-09-2009, 17:03

I think a lot of the people that keep their dogs on lead for whatever reasons(me included as amber has dog "issues") probably arn`t against dogs being off lead completely, just in public areas.
This dosn`t mean the dogs don`t get excercised properly, I mean Amber is allowed off her lead in an enclosed space, with no other dogs, when I know she can`t get into any bother. Me and my partner both run, so she also gets plenty of excercise daily on runs.
Whats right for one dog may not be right for another.
What I do hate, is people that have their dogs off and allow them to come up to mine, she is on the lead for a reason.
If they can`t ensure that their dog is gonna stay away then yeah, it probably should be on a lead.

medusa · 17-09-2009, 17:15

Molly could walk all day and not be tired and she'd also be bored if she didn't have some romping time.

I personally would be unable to give her as much exercise and stimulation as she needs if we didn't allow her off lead.

However, she is scared of most other dogs and we're still working on that, so I always put her back on the lead when we see other dogs and ask other dog owners to keep their dogs away from her.

When she came to us Molly had no idea how to play and didn't have anything that she really liked doing. This was changed as soon as she found balls and frisbees and now she has a selection of frisbees with different flight characteristics and we alternate frisbee with ball and change frisbees, just to keep her entertained and challenged. We also take her to lots of different places, from beaches to moorlands, woods and fields including as many places which are new to her as we can.

She's an intelligent dog and she thrives on being exercised both mentally and physically- if we really had to never let her off the lead (including in the middle of nowhere with no other humans, dogs or other animals in sight) then I think her life would be affected negatively by that.

lemongrass · 17-09-2009, 18:07

An hour walking on the lead with a pug say, or an old dog would be more than enough compared to a young springer or collie. Depends on the dog!

claire1976 · 17-09-2009, 18:23

I think some people are missing the point off being 'off lead' - it's not just so the dog can romp around for 30+ minutes its also about stimulation. One of my dogs is 13 and yes she cannot run around as much and would probably get enough 'exercise' on the lead. However, it's also about the stimulation she gets from sniffing around in tree's and paddling in the water etc. This stimulation keeps her motivated on walks and therefore she is still keen to go out and extremely fit and healthy for a an older dog.
Of course, there are still many dogs out there that cannot be let off for one reason or another and I respect that. My dogs are under control off the lead and can be recalled easily. They also don't bother that much with other dogs.
I don't really exercise my dogs in a public park, I am lucky to live in a semi-rural area with access to farm fields and therefore tend to meet the same people daily. The dogs meet regularly and there are no problems but I accept in a public park there are some instances where dogs should be on a lead.

lemongrass · 17-09-2009, 19:08

Yes, ideally a dog should get some running around socialising with other dogs but I don't think it's vital. My dogs are getting on in years and have never 'run free', however, I take time to let them sniff around where other dogs have been and take time to play with them in the garden and they are healthy and not overweight. I really think it's about choosing the right breed for your lifestyle and surroundings. A pal of mine is a fell runner and rescued a destructive collie.. that dog is out every weekend having the time of it's life. If you live in town or a city don't get a dog that needs a lot of exercise unless you are prepared to spend a lot of time with it.

Cyclone · 17-09-2009, 19:13

Isn't there a big difference between a dogs owner deciding that the best thing is to keep it on the lead (either temporary or not) and the comments from those who don't and probably have never cared for a pet who say the same that all dogs should be permanently on a lead.

The former I can't see how anyone can make any complaint about, the latter should be ignored with the contempt that they deserve.

lemongrass · 17-09-2009, 19:21

The ones who don't care about their dogs probably just open the door to let them out in the morning, unsupervised. My dogs never get off their leads, they are terriers who if they saw a cat might just 'go' for it. Even though they are getting on in years they still get at least an hours walk a day. I feel they are ok with that. At least I know that they will never cause a road accident, never cause a fight and are safe at all times.

Tess · 18-09-2009, 11:23

I think its quite unfair that a dog should have to stay on a lead at all times. I have a Labrador cross (with a horse maybe, hes blinking huge!) and as he is still being trained when walking him round the woods he has to stay on the lead, thus why we don't tend to take him there.

Another point is that when another walker sees Benji on a lead, because he is so massive, they assume he is a nasty dog! This actually upsets me because he is quite the opposite but I can definately understand why people would think that. Hopefully he won't need to be on a lead for much longer though - then we have to deal with the fact he enjoys playing with the smaller dogs because dogs his size frighten him!

Lotti · 18-09-2009, 11:34

Tess,

I would avoid you and Benji not because I'd assume he was nasty but because I would assume he was on the lead for a reason and unless you expressly said my dogs could say hello, I would keep them away. (Besides which my youngest who goes offlead is scared of anything bigger than her!)

I have a permanently onlead dog and he's not nasty (though he likes to pretend he is!) there are various reasons he's on the lead (can't see or hear very well, a tad senile so doesn't always come back and because he's not keen on other dogs - not nasty with them, just noisy) but mainly he is anxious about dogs approaching him and that's why I wish people would see us and keep their dogs away from him.

Tess · 18-09-2009, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotti

Tess,

I would avoid you and Benji not because I'd assume he was nasty but because I would assume he was on the lead for a reason and unless you expressly said my dogs could say hello, I would keep them away. (Besides which my youngest who goes offlead is scared of anything bigger than her!)

I have a permanently onlead dog and he's not nasty (though he likes to pretend he is!) there are various reasons he's on the lead (can't see or hear very well, a tad senile so doesn't always come back and because he's not keen on other dogs - not nasty with them, just noisy) but mainly he is anxious about dogs approaching him and that's why I wish people would see us and keep their dogs away from him.

Thats it isn't it Lotti - people see dogs on leads and assume the worst when maybe only a few of the cases are because the dog is aggressive. Poor Benji is four years old and we have only had him a few months, he is terrified of big dogs and I think in his head he's a little spaniel!

So he goes bounding up to these little dogs with his legs that are too long for his body and they quite rightly look terrified and all poor Benj wants to do is say hello!