'The gender question in regard to musicians makes me annoyed. What relevance does a person's sex have? Doesn't the quality of music making come more from a person's individual character than from the generalities of their sex? Although I complain about this question I also have to admit that I have had benefits from it as well. As the Director of my own orchestra, which performs music by both women and men, I've received a certain amount of extra press coverage because women composers and female Music Directors are still quite rare, and considered newsworthy by the media.
Somebody once told me that women's brains are different and simply don't have in them the capacity to create artistically. Similarly Wilhelm Gericke (the Boston Symphony's Musical Adviser) told Amy Cheney/Beach's mother that her prodigy daughter should not be educated in Europe as women were intellectually less highly evolved than men. How sad that we are seen as strange animals, so "differently" endowed. Could it be that our capacity to produce new human life is so major a threat for men that they have to keep the creation of symphonies (etc) to themselves? ' Diana Ambache
I 've forgotton who , but someone pointed out that there was a connection between chess , mathematics and music-------in the sense that only in those three areas , do you get child prodigies.
I've been playing chess regularly for 52 years and I have always been surprised at the lack of female players , vis-a-vis males. I've started school chess clubs [ being a teacher ] in the U.K. and in Turkey , Kuwait and Romania --------and the position is exactly as it was 50 years ago ------9 male players for every 1 female player. There doesn't seem to me , any obvious obstacle to prevent girls playing chess , and I'm not qualified to offer an answer.
I can't think of any female "Einsteins " either or , "Russells " or , "Whiteheads " and the world of music has already been mentioned.
The reason , presumably , why they have a , "Women's World Chess Champion[ship] " is to give women who do play chess , some encouragement. In , "open " world competitions they never looked like having a cat in hell's chance of winning the top prize.
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Just been reading through a few posts again and some people have hinted that because women have been classed as second class citizens until , "fairly recently " , that may account for their lack of progress in music and/or chess.
How long does it take Western Wimmin to , "shake off the bonds " of inferiority ? China is only developing in fits and starts and women have and have had , far fewer chances than Western women ; yet the World Woman Chess Champion is Chinese ------and in a few years their Women's football team will probably knock England out of the World Cup.
Could it be that the lack of women's progress in the West is that they're far more interested in a new dining table and so lack determination , energy and discipline to succeed in intellectual pursuits ?
It's strange , too , that the 19th. century produced good women novelists and so few comparable composers. Perhaps this was because their novels were mostly based on the concrete , whilst music is abstract ?
A lot of hope is currently being invested in Judit Polgar, by far the best female player ever, who is currently ranked at about 8th or 9th in the world. But there is a big difference between being in the top ten and making it to top spot. Meanwhile, younger guys are coming up behind her all the time. I would be surprised (although certainly not disappointed) if she became world champion.
Kasparov's , "judgement " on the Polgar sisters sounds cruel and offensive and I'm sure his remarks were based on the fact that the Polgar sisters had been very strictly trained by their father to play chess , from a very early age. Kasparov was therefore , I think , categorising them as , "automatons " [?] , or 'robots ' , good technically but not possessing that artistic touch that takes a very good player into the realms of genius.
However , Kasparov's reasoning seems a bit illogical to me , as many superb chess players , including Kasparov's hero , Alekhine , had very weird childhoods. It really is difficult to unravel. Perhaps the answer IS simple ; women's brains , hence thought processes , ARE different from men's.
I remember reading a transcript of the interview in which Kasparov made the remark about trained dogs. He was specifically asked his opinion of the calibre of female chess players and of the possibility of there being a female world champion. I don't think his remarks were meant to be either cruel or offensive: he said his skepticism was based on differences in psychology (which could embrace both aptitude and motivation). Polgar is quite an aggressive, bold, player, so the aggressiveness element can't be the whole story and i don't think it is.
I blame dining tables. They're just so gosh darned interesting. If only I'd been able to drag my attention away from shopping today I might have been able to become chess world champion (or at least shake off my bonds of inferiority).
I'm pretty good at chess. I might give this championship malarky a go, once I have finished my first symphony.
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Originally posted by timo Lord C,
The variables might well be the following:- 'gendered' nature of society, higher levels of visio-spatial intelligence in males, higher levels of 'creative sociopathology' in males, and testosterone-based higher levels of aggression/urges to primacy in males. Thus the Timo/Chaverly thesis!
Mind you, Lord Snooty [he's not a 'real' Lord, unlike you and I...] makes a good point re the rumours that women secretly wrote work attributed to their husbands, i.e, Clara Schumann. On first hearing these rumours, I was tempted to link them with the sublimely fatuous claims that 'Beethoven was black', uttered by certain radical Afro-American slavery-compensation merchants. However, some evidence is coming to light on this intriguing matter.
According to Earnest Bickerdyke [ descendant of the celebrated Wincobank poet, Albert Bickerdyke, who wrote the moving ode to 'unashamed outdoor love' in Woolley Woods- 'Pull me vest darn when tha's finished, Edie'] of The Shiregreen Advertiser, there are several cases of 'great' works secretly written by female relations of the credited composers. For example, Wagner's Der Fliegende Hollander is rumoured to have been written by his 'Auntie' Brigitte, in between her ironing and door step scrubbing at Bochum. Mozart's String Quartet K464, is almost certainly written by, in Sheffield parlance, his 'Nannan'. Stockhausen's 'Hymnen', a modern 'classical' meisterwerk, is claimed by Mrs Stella Mac Donough of Giro Walk, Bootle.
Timo, you sound very clever, are you a student ? what do you study ?
kathy, I think you've stumbled on mankind's secret weapon against female chess players - the dining table. Its a well known fact that when Kasparov played Polgar, he insisted that the match be played on a dining table, assuming that she would be so distracted by the table that she would not be able to concentrate on the match. He also insisted that the match be played near a shopping mall, knowing that she would be likely to rush her moves in order to get some shopping in before the mall closed.
Originally posted by LordChaverly kathy, I think you've stumbled on mankind's secret weapon against female chess players - the dining table. Its a well known fact that when Kasparov played Polgar, he insisted that the match be played on a dining table, assuming that she would be so distracted by the table that she would not be able to concentrate on the match. He also insisted that the match be played near a shopping mall, knowing that she would be likely to rush her moves in order to get some shopping in before the mall closed.
DAMN those feminine urges
When I play Kasparov I shall insist that the match be played on the bosom of a naked lady. That'll show him.
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Originally posted by poppins Timo, you sound very clever, are you a student ? what do you study ?
Indeed he is - in my opinion, the brightest, most eloquent and amusing, poster on the forum.
I believe he does indeed labour in the groves of academe, but as a lecturer, not a student. Long may he continue to amuse and educate us (usually at the same time).
Originally posted by tslogf74 Anyway, this thread's got me thinking and I haven't played a game of chess in years. Is there a forum games club, at all?
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