[Cynic]

I have a feeling my point may got lost in trying to get it from my head to written words but I will give it a go!

We (mankind) have spent many hundreds of years making the world we live in today. Including the way we make transactions with money. Originally this was done so we didn't have to carry sheep or goats round in our wallets to exchange for goods. Now the majority of the world is ruled by the desire of business to make money. If we think about money it isn't really anything, it used to represent an amount of gold that had to be kept in the reserves but I believe this isn't the case any longer. So in real terms we are fighting over bits of paper.

I don't think this will happen any time soon but is it possible that this system we have created could collapse? All the big businesses collapse, money becomes worthless across the whole planet and we have to start again.

[pk014b7161]

i think the all process would just start over again the strong beating on the weak grabbing land & power

[BoroughGal]

But the amount of paper you have will always dictate how many cows and sheep you can buy - therefore it will continue to be important?

[StarSparkle]

Originally Posted by Cynic

I have a feeling my point may got lost in trying to get it from my head to written words but I will give it a go!

We (mankind) have spent many hundreds of years making the world we live in today. Including the way we make transactions with money. Originally this was done so we didn't have to carry sheep or goats round in our wallets to exchange for goods. Now the majority of the world is ruled by the desire of business to make money. If we think about money it isn't really anything, it used to represent an amount of gold that had to be kept in the reserves but I believe this isn't the case any longer. So in real terms we are fighting over bits of paper.

I don't think this will happen any time soon but is it possible that this system we have created could collapse? All the big businesses collapse, money becomes worthless across the whole planet and we have to start again.

Absolutely. Very much so.

Politicians and industrialists and financiers and the rest of the world's 'elite' are pretty worried about that right now... to say the very least. They will hang on to their power and control of the world with utter tenacity for as long as they possibly can. Will they succeed? Who knows

Thoughtful people are hoping the world is on the edge of a much more spiritually-based world, rather than the soul-destroying materialist one the vast majority of the world's population have suffered under for so long.

StarSparkle

[sallyf22]

Wow! Do you work? Where do you find the time to sit and think of these things?!? But coming to your conclusion, It could be a possibility but on the other hand what do they (mankind) say???? "money makes the world go round". These bits of paper we earn and fight for pays for the internet you are using at the moment! If the whole system did collapse let's say? I can't imagine what we would do? Can you??

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by StarSparkle

Thoughtful people are hoping the world is on the edge of a much more spiritually-based world, rather than the soul-destroying materialist one the vast majority of the world's population have suffered under for so long.

StarSparkle

That is something else I was thinking about. If it did collapse and we had to start again could we create a better world. That didn't reward things like greed. There has to be reward for innovation and things that drive mankind forward. It shouldn't be done by making the rich richer and the poor poorer though.

We accept the system as it is now but it has come together not because of careful planning but because it just has. Lots of small decisions without an overall goal have created the world we live in today. If we could start again could we create a better system. One that made use of everybody's strengths allowed us to progress but didn't reward people for taking advantage of others.

[Tricky]

Originally Posted by BoroughGal

But the amount of paper you have will always dictate how many cows and sheep you can buy - therefore it will continue to be important?

Umm not necessarily. Money is now mostly debt, very little of it is supported by tangible assets.

To try and briefly explain, every time someone borrows money to buy a house, the lender simply types in a six figure sum into that person's account and they pay it to the vendor. Hey presto! A six figure sum that did not exist 5 minutes previously. Wealth has been created. Multiply this millions(?) of times for all the transactions all over the world for a number of years.

All is well until the debt starts to look worthless, then your money starts to look worthless and then no-one will exchange his cow or sheep for it.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by sallyf22

Wow! Do you work?

How did you guess. I am off work ill today. Just in time to have a lousy weekend

[Danny_Boy]

Originally Posted by Cynic

That is something else I was thinking about. If it did collapse and we had to start again could we create a better world. That didn't reward things like greed. There has to be reward for innovation and things that drive mankind forward. It shouldn't be done by making the rich richer and the poor poorer though.

We accept the system as it is now but it has come together not because of careful planning but because it just has. Lots of small decisions without an overall goal have created the world we live in today. If we could start again could we create a better system. One that made use of everybody's strengths allowed us to progress but didn't reward people for taking advantage of others.

Without money and goverment it would be even worse for the poor, it would be back to survival of the fittest and as already mentioned the strong would grab land and power and leave the weak to fight over the scraps, there would be no safety net for the disabled or weak and it would be a pretty awful world to live in not the utopia that some people expect. Like it or lump it Capitilism gives structure provides wealth and gives people (that can be bothered) the chance to better themselves plus it works

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Tricky

All is well until the debt starts to look worthless, then your money starts to look worthless and then no-one will exchange his cow or sheep for it.

That is what I feel could finally cause a total collapse. In many cases money is just a number on a screen. Why does it have any real value. It doesn't.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Danny_Boy

Without money and goverment it would be even worse for the poor, it would be back to survival of the fittest and as already mentioned the strong would grab land and power and leave the weak to fight over the scraps, there would be no safety net for the disabled or weak and it would be a pretty awful world to live in not the utopia that some people expect. Like it or lump it Capitilism gives structure provides wealth and gives people (that can be bothered) the chance to better themselves plus it works

I nearly added similar to my earlier reply. It wouldn't work like we would all hope if we started again. Someone of a similar personality (if that is the right word in this context) to Hitler would probably end up ruling the world.

[StarSparkle]

Originally Posted by Cynic

That is something else I was thinking about. If it did collapse and we had to start again could we create a better world. That didn't reward things like greed. There has to be reward for innovation and things that drive mankind forward. It shouldn't be done by making the rich richer and the poor poorer though.

We accept the system as it is now but it has come together not because of careful planning but because it just has. Lots of small decisions without an overall goal have created the world we live in today. If we could start again could we create a better system. One that made use of everybody's strengths allowed us to progress but didn't reward people for taking advantage of others.

That would be the hope and the ideal.

It sounds like pie in the sky a bit maybe - but who knows?

StarSparkle

[Ninjamagic]

Originally Posted by Cynic

I have a feeling my point may got lost in trying to get it from my head to written words but I will give it a go!

We (mankind) have spent many hundreds of years making the world we live in today. Including the way we make transactions with money. Originally this was done so we didn't have to carry sheep or goats round in our wallets to exchange for goods. Now the majority of the world is ruled by the desire of business to make money. If we think about money it isn't really anything, it used to represent an amount of gold that had to be kept in the reserves but I believe this isn't the case any longer. So in real terms we are fighting over bits of paper.

I don't think this will happen any time soon but is it possible that this system we have created could collapse? All the big businesses collapse, money becomes worthless across the whole planet and we have to start again.

100% it will collapse. The money is fictional and thought up as magic numbers and letters on a computer screen. £1billion dollars doesnt exist as £1billion worth of gold. It is fed by capitalism and real wealth (trees, forestry, gas and the main one, oil). Once the world runs out of its resources, and remember we are told the western world would need 3 times the earths we currently have to continue our standard of living, it is obvious it will collapse, when their is no more trees left to chop or oil in the ground.

then ppl will use gold and silver, sheeps, goats and the like again to trade. the clever man is the one who recognises this now, whilst still in the system.

good post

[Danny_Boy]

Originally Posted by Cynic

I nearly added similar to my earlier reply. It wouldn't work like we would all hope if we started again. Someone of a similar personality (if that is the right word in this context) to Hitler would probably end up ruling the world.

Yes exactly, taking away the "evils" of money / capitilism away would not remove the evil people or the greed that some of the human race have, they are here to stay like it or lump it. I know we all complain about how this country is run but at least we have a somewhat happy balance of free markets and a safety net for the "weaker" in society. The strongest may be well off / rich but at least the weak can have a life that is worth living at the moment, it could be a hell of a lot worse..

[pathman]

I don't think money is the Achilles heel of the system (although the current credit crunch shambles may prove me wrong), I think it is energy.

money has been around for a long time, and is pretty well tested by now. recessions and depressions yes, but complete systems failure no.

energy on the other hand …. scares me a lot. the main issue is that we have an infrastructure, financial, computing and distribution that is inextricably linked to energy. turn off the energy supplies and because we have replaced local agricultural and supply methods using labour, with international distribution methods dependant on energy, we would be starving very quickly.

at least it’s Friday though, and the weather forecast is good for the weekend, look on the bright side.

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by Cynic

If we could start again could we create a better system. One that made use of everybody's strengths allowed us to progress but didn't reward people for taking advantage of others.

Some places and times have had such a system. It's not better, because it doesn't work. Capitalism is the only working system we've ever come across, because it freely admits that people are greedy and selfish, and uses that to its advantage.

[garrence]

Capitalism has done a great job of consuming the planet's natural resources at a rate several times greater than the planet can actually cope with. We're in a honeymoon period before the global warming and environmental degradation come to bite.

Whatever it is that Islamic nations do, they don't appear to have the opulent levels of personal wealth and the ludicrous amounts of waste. Perhaps Al Quaeda have a point after all.

Anyway - as I understand it, the "system" relies on continuous economic growth for some bizarre reason. Surely that's pretty much impossible in a world of finite resources, so yes the "system" is certain to fail?

Why we can't just have a economy that stays the same size, I don't understand?

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by garrence

Whatever it is that Islamic nations do, they don't appear to have the opulent levels of personal wealth and the ludicrous amounts of waste.

You've never met a sheikh?

[Sickermore]

Originally Posted by StarSparkle

They will hang on to their power and control of the world with utter tenacity for as long as they possibly can. Will they succeed? Who knows

Thoughtful people are hoping the world is on the edge of a much more spiritually-based world, rather than the soul-destroying materialist one the vast majority of the world's population have suffered under for so long.

You don't actually believe that, do you?

[Digsy]

I think we are in a transitional period, where the monetary system we knew is changing into credit/debt system, the monetary system we knew was bought out during the early 1900s by the credit system.

When you work, your not working for money, you are working for a statement of credit (wage slip, bank statement). In theory everything has already been paid, when you appear to be purchasing something, you are claiming said Item upon your credit whilst entering into a new contract with the vendor, so your receipt is confirmation of transfer for credit.
Which is why you can use receipts as legal tender when claiming back tax.

There is a whole lot more to it than this, and I aint had the time to investigate and get my head around how it all truly works, but it wreaks of glorified slavery to me.

Your signature is also legal tender, when you apply for a loan, you trade your signature for debt, and use credit to pay off the debt.