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Old 22-05-2008, 06:40   #1
craigmason
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did anybody watch this programme on channel 4 broadcast 19th may ?

Quote:
In God's Name

As the Human Fertilisation and Embryo Bill continues its way through Parliament, David Modell follows some of the leading members of Christian pressure groups as they attempt to win converts and convince MPs to base laws on Biblical beliefs.
Hard-line Christian activists are now mobilising believers in an attempt to make an impact on society nationally. Followers believe abortion and homosexuality should be illegal, there should be no sex before marriage and that the law of blasphemy should be strictly enforced.
They say the Bible is the definitive word of God and is literally true and are intolerant of other faiths. The film follows well funded and politically active Christian groups and shows them emerging as a significant voice in British politics.
They think society should be built on their beliefs. They claim non-believers are damned. But these radical Christian groups are not in America – they are here and are aiming to change the laws of our land, discovers the Bafta-winning film-maker David Modell
It's Tuesday morning and the infants' classroom in Carmel School is filled with the sound of children's voices reciting a rhyme. "The Lord has not dealt with us according to our sins nor punished us according to our iniquities." These are not easy words to remember if you're six.
Melony, the teacher, goes on to explain: "Before Jesus came, people who disobeyed God got turned to a pillar of salt. So thank God for Jesus because we can say 'Jesus, I'm sorry' and we don't have to fear getting turned into a pillar of salt, which really happened in the Old Testament."
One little girl has to do a science test. A classroom assistant kneels next to her, takes her hand and says: "We pray, Father, that you'll help her check all her spellings. In Jesus's name, Amen."
The test is multiple choice. Question five is: "God made the world in [BLANK] days." The options are "five, six or seven". The six-year-old carefully writes "six". The right answer.
This scene would be surprising enough if the school were in America's Bible Belt, but the voices around me are English, and we're in Bristol.
Carmel Christian School is my latest stop on a journey through British Christian fundamentalism, for a Channel 4 Dispatches film. With the nation focused on the perceived threat from radical Islam, I am interested to know if a less apparent form of radical religious belief is gaining ground. It is.
The uncompromising creationist curriculum taught in Carmel has been imported from the US. It is called Accelerated Christian Education; the motto of the Florida-based company who produce it is: "Reaching the world for Christ, one child at a time."
With 50 small schools in the UK teaching this curriculum, a total of more than 2,000 children are being "reached for Christ". Yet these schools are not operating outside the education system. Carmel is a government-endorsed faith school, complete with an Ofsted report that describes the teaching as "satisfactory".
According to the head teacher, David Owens, it's all thanks to a Labour prime minister. "Tony Blair opened the door in the debate on faith schools," he explains. "So it's time for people like us to strike while the iron is hot."
The school is part of the Carmel Christian Centre, one of a growing number of locally based hard-line Christian organisations. The aim of these groups is to spread a fundamentalist form of Christianity. The followers believe that the Bible is literally true and not open to any degree of interpretation. They are the only "true" Christians because they have confessed their sins before Jesus and become "born again". Those who have not converted are damned.
While mainstream Christian worship has been in steady decline, evangelical Christianity has been increasing. Not all evangelical worshippers hold such hard-line beliefs, but the fundamentalists will almost certainly describe themselves as evangelical.
Accurate figures quantifying the size of this movement are hard to come by. Carmel says they are a Pentecostal Church, one of the most prominent and fundamentalist strands of evangelical Christianity. According to the Evangelical Alliance, more than two million people in the UK now claim to be Pentecostal worshippers.
The ambitions of Britain's hard-line Christians go far beyond the borders of their local communities. Like most fundamentalist movements, the ultimate aim is a society built on their rigid belief system.
I was invited to Carmel by someone I met on a demonstration against the Sexual Orientation Rights [gay rights] legislation outside Parliament at the beginning of last year. The protest had been organised by the Lawyers' Christian Fellowship (LCF) – or, more specifically, by Andrea Williams, its public policy director.
Ms Williams believes any law that goes against her strict biblical beliefs must be fought. Her latest target is the Human Fertilisation and Embryology (HFE) Bill, which reaches a critical stage in its passage through Parliament next week. Ms Williams tells me why she is campaigning against it. "I believe there's a spiritual battle going on," she explains. "These laws reject God, and any rejection of God is the work of the enemy, Satan."
article continued here.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...html?pageNum=2
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Old 22-05-2008, 07:59   #2
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I like to believe in the fuzzy ideas of science, which say that any idea can be checked against fact by experiment; if this is fatal to our beloved theory, then bye-bye theory.

Others prefer to believe in the hard, firm knowledge that comes from faith; after all, no scientist can tell you how many days it took to create the Earth; a firm "six days" is a comforting answer.

Now faith means that you don't need an experiment! So, if you are a Wednesdayite, you know by your faith that they will win their next match -- so why bother playing, just give Wednesday all the points! (for non-Sheffielders, Wednesday play football/soccer at Hillsborough in blue and white shirts)

So I base my life on experiment, and hope to see my team win the next match; fundamentalists seek the comfort of certainty in faith, and don't need the match to be played, as their book has told them the result already!
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Old 22-05-2008, 08:55   #3
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Childrens' educational establishments should not be able to prescribe a religion.
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Old 22-05-2008, 09:27   #4
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She knows this is not achievable any time soon, but a reduction in the upper limit on terminations would be a start.

they obviously not influential at all. Britain is a secular society.
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Old 22-05-2008, 10:44   #5
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I liked the guy who hoped his son would not turn out to be gay. When asked why his response was:

"Well, I don't want him to get sh*t on his p*nis."

Or the fella with obligatory big teeth (imported direct from the US of A no doubt) who got the hump on with the film crew (he couldn't decide whether he wanted them filming or not) and who received a large splash of bird poo on his shirt.

Once he'd changed his shirt he decided that the aforementioned crap was in fact, 'a message from God.'

You can't buy comedy like this.
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Old 22-05-2008, 10:53   #6
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Putting the mentalist in fundamentalists.
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Old 22-05-2008, 11:01   #7
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There are the people who actively meddle in the Middle East peace process, because they need Israel to be in a certain state before Our Lord And Saviour Jesus H. Christ descends from heaven to soundly smite sinners. Mental.
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Old 22-05-2008, 12:50   #8
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Religion has no place in schools, particularly government sponsored ones. If someone wants to pay tuition to send their child to a religious school, be my guest but don't expect me to pay for it.

I live in the Bible Belt, by the way. Off the top of my head there are at least 7 churches and 2 temples within 2 miles of my house. One of those churches is also a Catholic Elementary school but it is supported by private tuition.

Yes the religious brainwashing is alive and well here....and it looks like it is coming alive there.
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Old 22-05-2008, 13:05   #9
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I thought this OP had promissed to avoid posting about political or radical factions .
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Old 22-05-2008, 13:35   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callippo View Post
She knows this is not achievable any time soon, but a reduction in the upper limit on terminations would be a start.

they obviously not influential at all. Britain is a secular society.

The Church has historically had a prominent national voice and British society is often said to be based on Christian values originating from the bible such as human life always being regarded as sacred. How important do you think it is that British society continues to be based on Christian values?'. On a BBC survey 44% of non-believers answered very important (19%) or quite important (25%).

The poll taken for BBC News 24's Faith Day examines how belief in religions is shaping British identity.

More than two-thirds of the 1,019 respondents said they were Christian, but only 17% regularly went to church.

Almost 75% of respondents said the UK should retain Christian values - including 69% of Jews, and nearly 50% of Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus.



So what's going on there? Secularism clearly has a long way to go in this country ...
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Last edited by Baz1; 22-05-2008 at 13:38.
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Old 22-05-2008, 13:40   #11
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Mercifully, religion is slowly but surely becoming an obsolete way of life in the west at least and hopefully itll start to become more and more ignored in the middle east so these fundamentalist types will have less and less say in the ways of the world over the next century or so.

Id go so far as to say this rise in fundamentalism both in the east and west is a last gasp before its gone for good.

Of course, there`ll always be some fruit cake somewhere who will want to follow whatever holy books in fashion at the time to the letter and even make up his own ideas of how things should be but thats human nature for you, some people are simply nuts.
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Old 22-05-2008, 15:06   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazooka View Post
The Church has historically had a prominent national voice and British society is often said to be based on Christian values originating from the bible...

Almost 75% of respondents said the UK should retain Christian values - including 69% of Jews, and nearly 50% of Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus.
[/U]
It's no big surprise to find so many people stupid enough to think values like being honest and not killing people originated in the bible and can legitimatly be called "christian values"

Mind you the people who conducted the survey are also to blame for the false oppositions in their wording.
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Old 22-05-2008, 15:45   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norbert View Post
It's no big surprise to find so many people stupid enough to think values like being honest and not killing people originated in the bible and can legitimatly be called "christian values"

Mind you the people who conducted the survey are also to blame for the false oppositions in their wording.
I do not speak for views of these people or christianity for that matter,but my point was to state that Britain is not a secular society as a whole, as religion and in particular CofE play a huge part.
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Old 22-05-2008, 16:50   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norbert View Post
It's no big surprise to find so many people stupid enough to think values like being honest and not killing people originated in the bible and can legitimatly be called "christian values"

Mind you the people who conducted the survey are also to blame for the false oppositions in their wording.
But they are there none-the-less. So from the tone of your remark I take it you think people who value honesty and not killing people are stupid?
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Old 22-05-2008, 18:34   #15
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But they are there none-the-less. So from the tone of your remark I take it you think people who value honesty and not killing people are stupid?
For most people honesty and not killing people are HUMAN values, recognised by most people in most cultures since civilisation began. I believe you know this yourself and thus it makes your fatuous question a dishonest one.
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Old 22-05-2008, 18:41   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norbert View Post
For most people honesty and not killing people are HUMAN values, recognised by most people in most cultures since civilisation began. I believe you know this yourself and thus it makes your fatuous question a dishonest one.
You talk about human values yet you call people stupid and then imply I am fatuous and dishonest. What were you saying about HUMAN values because I wish you would practise what you preach and not belittle people.

Last edited by Grahame; 22-05-2008 at 18:49.
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Old 22-05-2008, 18:49   #17
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I've decided to stop watching these documentaries about religion, they give completely the wrong impression of the majority of people who follow these faiths. And of course are only ever about the sections of the religion with the most extreme views in order to pull in the viewers.
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Old 22-05-2008, 18:53   #18
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Originally Posted by Bazooka View Post
I do not speak for views of these people or christianity for that matter,but my point was to state that Britain is not a secular society as a whole, as religion and in particular CofE play a huge part.
Dull monotheistic religions have been pretty much dead in this country for a long time. Many who call themselves christian on the census form don't really understand what it means anyway, and many who understand it don't actually follow its teachings where they deviate from common sense or cultural norms.

Most people visit churches for the architecture and for BM&Ds in which mention of god and jesus is the boring "filler" material for most people.
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Old 22-05-2008, 19:34   #19
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religion just isn't a political issue in UK politics as it is in the states. Abortion would never be an issue between candidates in an election here. There's been stories knocking around in the UK press for 20 years of Christian fundamentalists infiltrating Conservative associations in some of the strong Tory areas rather in the manner of Trots infilitrating the Labour party in the 70s and 80s, but without any of the effect on local government that the Trots had. If they're trying to morally improve - to their way of thinking - the UK, then they're not exactly succeeding. It's a lot less religous a country than it was 20 years ago, and it wasn't particularly religous even then. In the last general election, neither the would-be Prime Minister or Chancellor of the Exchequer were Christian, the Lib Dem candidate was Catholic, and so was next Tory leader IDS.

it is worth noting that no Catholic has ever been PM, and that Blair only converted to Catholicism after leaving office, but that's to do with our constitution and the spill over effect of the monarch needing to be a Protestant.
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Old 22-05-2008, 22:00   #20
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They seem to like biblical quotes, so here's one: Mathew 7:5.
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