[wolfstalin]

With threads around about Polls I thought it may be of interest to set a balance and record efforts that the heroic polish forces helped the UK remain free in its darkest hour.

29 of those polish few lost their lives during the Battle of Britain.

Polish free forces also led the successfull attack at the Battle of Monti casino suffering significant casualties.

The Polish community is Sheffield has been there since the second world war as a consequence of the Stalinist take over of their country.

The Pols have suffered a lot and helped keep democracy alive such that it is in England.

[boyfriday]

Originally Posted by wolfstalin

With threads around about Polls I thought it may be of interest to set a balance and record efforts that the heroic polish forces helped the UK remain free in its darkest hour.

29 of those polish few lost their lives during the Battle of Britain.

Polish free forces also led the successfull attack at the Battle of Monti casino suffering significant casualties.

The Polish community is Sheffield has been there since the second world war as a consequence of the Stalinist take over of their country.

The Pols have suffered a lot and helped keep democracy alive such that it is in England.

The Poles made a significant and valuable contribution to the war effort.

We also shouldn't forget other foreigners that served in the British forces or supported them

[Agent Orange]

Yes, I was aware of the contribution they made and the part they played during the Battle of Britain. We shall be forever be in their debt, as well as the other foreign nationals that shored up the RAF and the armed forces during the war.

[Darbees]

In the numerous war cemeteries in France there are thousands of graves of Poles and indeed Muslims who fought for the Allies.

[The_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Darbees

In the numerous war cemeteries in France there are thousands of graves of Poles and indeed Muslims who fought for the Allies.

Like these muslims
you mean?

[wolfstalin]

Originally Posted by Darbees

In the numerous war cemeteries in France there are thousands of graves of Poles and indeed Muslims who fought for the Allies.

Indeed, did you also know that as a country Poland also had the greatest loss of life in percentage terms at a shade over 16% of the 1939 population.

[Annoni_mouse]

Originally Posted by The_DADDY

Like these muslims
you mean?

To be fair, there were many who sided with the Nazi's. There was even a small unit of captured British servicemen who formed an (ineffective) SS unit.

[Darbees]

Originally Posted by The_DADDY

Like these muslims
you mean?

Same as Christians, that's my point.

[wolfstalin]

On 11 June 1940, the Polish Government in Exile signed an agreement with the British Government to form a Polish Air Force in the UK. The first two (of an eventual ten) Polish fighter squadrons went into action in August 1940: 302 and 303 Squadrons, with 89 Polish pilots. Another 50 Poles took part, in British squadrons. In all, 30 Polish airmen were killed during the battle.

Polish pilots were among the most experienced in the battle; most had pre-war flying experience and had fought in the Polish September Campaign and/or the Battle of France. No. 303 "Kosciuszko" Squadron, which was named after the Polish hero General Tadeusz Kosciuszko, claimed the highest number of kills (126) of all the squadrons engaged in the Battle of Britain[citation needed], even though it only joined the combat on August 30 (though the number of claims should be verified down, but claims of the British squadrons were verified down proportionally as well). The 147 Polish pilots claimed 201 aircraft shot down. Sgt Josef Frantisek — a Czechoslovakian in 303 Squadron — claimed 17 kills. S/L Witold Urbanowicz of 303 Sqn was the top Polish scorer with 15 claims. Tony Glowacki was the only Allied pilot in the battle to shoot down five German planes in one day, being August 24.

RAF pilots were often sent into the air for training with no ammunition, and told that if they were faced with a problematic situation they should return to the ground to have ammunition loaded. When Polish pilots found themselves in this situation, rather than obeying orders, many tried to ram the German planes, sacrificing themselves to destroy German bombers and illustrating the deep hatred of the Poles for the occupiers of their homeland.

The Polish War Memorial on the outskirts of RAF Northolt was dedicated in 1948 as a commemoration of the Polish contribution to Allied arms.

[wolfstalin]

Here's the full list off 'other nationals' who flew in the Battle of Britain.

Poland 139
New Zealand 98
Canada 86
Czechoslovakia 84
Belgium 29
Australia 21
South Africa 20
France 13
Ireland 10
United States 7
Jamaica 1
Palestine Mandate 1
Southern Rhodesia 1
Unknown 8

[Darbees]

RAF 1103 pilots
Luftwaffe 1450

[The_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Annoni_mouse

To be fair, there were many who sided with the Nazi's. There was even a small unit of captured British servicemen who formed an (ineffective) SS unit.

Yup, i read about those traitors.
They should have been lined up and shot.
Anyways, i know not all muslims were friendly with old one ball.
Trying to stay close to the op, i will say its clear we owe a massive debt of thanks to a lot of people from lots of different parts of the world but lets also not forget, they owe us too.

[Annoni_mouse]

Originally Posted by The_DADDY

Yup, i read about those traitors.
They should have been lined up and shot.
Anyways, i know not all muslims were friendly with old one ball.
Trying to stay close to the op, i will say its clear we owe a massive debt of thanks to a lot of people from lots of different parts of the world but lets also not forget, they owe us too.

IIRC, they British soldiers who formed the "British Free Corps" proved to be more trouble than they were worth to the Germans - they were unwilling to co-operate with their commanders, and I think I'm right in saying that they never saw combat. Only one or two of the men bought into the Nazi ideal, the rest just agreed to sign up to avoid serving time in a POW camp.

You could argue that they actually did their bit for the allied victory - forcing the Germans to spend valuable time and resources on a project that was doomed from the outset

[Cuey]

Originally Posted by wolfstalin

Here's the full list off 'other nationals' who flew in the Battle of Britain.

Poland 139
New Zealand 98
Canada 86
Czechoslovakia 84
Belgium 29
Australia 21
South Africa 20
France 13
Ireland 10
United States 7
Jamaica 1
Palestine Mandate 1
Southern Rhodesia 1
Unknown 8

I'm not a big WW2 reader (more WW1) But 1 Jamaican pilot. I bet thats a story worth telling. Anyone know anymore?

[Annoni_mouse]

Originally Posted by Cuey

I'm not a big WW2 reader (more WW1) But 1 Jamaican pilot. I bet thats a story worth telling. Anyone know anymore?

Pilot Herbert Capstick was the only Jamaican pilot to serve with the RAF during the BoB. I've found this link to a website which was offering his logbook and medals for auction

http://www.ccbaviation.com/Products/Image.asp?ID=169

[Cuey]

Originally Posted by Annoni_mouse

Pilot Herbert Capstick was the only Jamaican pilot to serve with the RAF during the BoB. I've found this link to a website which was offering his logbook and medals for auction

http://www.ccbaviation.com/Products/Image.asp?ID=169

How sad. I hate to see these things up for sale. The cost can't reflect what was invovled in getting them. I've looked him up and he's a fairly elusive character. He was a white Jamaican but very little is know fo his life outside of the RAF period.

[Annoni_mouse]

Originally Posted by Cuey

How sad. I hate to see these things up for sale. The cost can't reflect what was invovled in getting them. I've looked him up and he's a fairly elusive character. He was a white Jamaican but very little is know fo his life outside of the RAF period.

Whilst I agree with you about selling memorabilia, I suppose it cuts both ways. What he fought far is worth far more than the cost of a few medals and an old logbook. These ultimately are just trinkets, the real testament to his bravery and sacrifice is the freedom we all enjoy. And you can’t put a price on that, can you?

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by Annoni_mouse

IIRC, they British soldiers who formed the "British Free Corps" proved to be more trouble than they were worth to the Germans - they were unwilling to co-operate with their commanders, and I think I'm right in saying that they never saw combat. Only one or two of the men bought into the Nazi ideal, the rest just agreed to sign up to avoid serving time in a POW camp.

You could argue that they actually did their bit for the allied victory - forcing the Germans to spend valuable time and resources on a project that was doomed from the outset

From what I've read about how inefficient and hopeless they were, I've always thought that they signed up with exactly that aim in mind. I think they knew what they were doing - helping the British war effort in their own small way.

Course, it's hard to prove, and the mere fact they agreed to work with the Nazis - whether sincerely or not - leaves them labelled as traitors. There are, though, many examples of people appearing to submit to overlords, and exercising their defiance by being completely useless at whatever tasks they are set. The negro slaves in 19th-century USA were especially good at this.

[Annoni_mouse]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

From what I've read about how inefficient and hopeless they were, I've always thought that they signed up with exactly that aim in mind. I think they knew what they were doing - helping the British war effort in their own small way.

Course, it's hard to prove, and the mere fact they agreed to work with the Nazis - whether sincerely or not - leaves them labelled as traitors. There are, though, many examples of people appearing to submit to overlords, and exercising their defiance by being completely useless at whatever tasks they are set. The negro slaves in 19th-century USA were especially good at this.

I was watching a programme about American paratroopers in Normandy, and one of the soldiers told a story about a German shell landing close to their position. The shell failed to explode and he said whenever a shell or a bomb or a motor round malfunctioned like this, they would always say 'Made in Czechoslovakia' - based on the assumption that the Czechs who were working in the armament factories were deliberately sending out faulty ordinance to hamper the German war machine

[The_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Annoni_mouse

I was watching a programme about American paratroopers in Normandy, and one of the soldiers told a story about a German shell landing close to their position. The shell failed to explode and he said whenever a shell or a bomb or a motor round malfunctioned like this, they would always say 'Made in Czechoslovakia' - based on the assumption that the Czechs who were working in the armament factories were deliberately sending out faulty ordinance to hamper the German war machine

I like this story.
Fair point too on the British nazis. I didnt think of it like that