[donuticus]

Just a quick feeler to all the SF members out there.

I'm interested to know your opinions on the following.

If I say all black people are drug dealers I would, quite rightly, expect consequences.

If I say that all Muslims are terrorists then the same would happen.

Yet it seems perfectly acceptable to define all Americans as fat and stupid. As the son of an American immigrant (who is neither fat nor stupid) I cant understand how this is acceptable.

Whether you agree or disagree with the USA's foreign policy shouldn't matter (I don't) but I am surprised by the reaction I recieve when people find out about my parentage.

Racism or playful banter. Opinions please.



Rich

[redrobbo]

Originally Posted by donuticus

...Yet it seems perfectly acceptable to define all Americans as fat and stupid.

I find it offensive that you seem it is perfectably acceptable to define all Americans as fat and stupid.

My English cousin lives in the USA. Her Indian born husband is now a naturalised American citizen. He is not stupid (in fact he's a doctor) and he is not fat.

Please stop these generalisations of Americans being fat and stupid right now!

[ABCD]

there are always two opposite vioces in this world.

If u say yes, someone will come out and shout out "NO"

Most people have no opinion on what happened. So, just take a little bit time, they will make their choices. So far, I don't know. But definitely, I will follow the main stream

[donuticus]

Originally Posted by redrobbo

I find it offensive that you seem it is perfectably acceptable to define all Americans as fat and stupid.

My English cousin lives in the USA. Her Indian born husband is now a naturalised American citizen. He is not stupid (in fact he's a doctor) and he is not fat.

Please stop these generalisations of Americans being fat and stupid right now!

I think you have the wrong end of the stick. I don't think all Americans are fat and stupid at all. I think they, as should everyone, should be judged on their own individualities. I'm just saying that at the moment if someone calls Americans fat and stupid it is merely dismissed yet if people were to make similarly disparageing (sp) comments about other races they would be hauled over the coals for it.

[redrobbo]

Originally Posted by donuticus

I think you have the wrong end of the stick. I don't think all Americans are fat and stupid at all. I think they, as should everyone, should be judged on their own individualities. I'm just saying that at the moment if someone calls Americans fat and stupid it is merely dismissed yet if people were to make similarly disparageing (sp) comments about other races they would be hauled over the coals for it.

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick! Didn't you spot my two smillies? I was posting with what you termed "playful banter"!

[ABCD]

Originally Posted by donuticus

I think you have the wrong end of the stick. I don't think all Americans are fat and stupid at all. I think they, as should everyone, should be judged on their own individualities. I'm just saying that at the moment if someone calls Americans fat and stupid it is merely dismissed yet if people were to make similarly disparageing (sp) comments about other races they would be hauled over the coals for it.

We human.
We usually act individually in this world. It doesn't matter how you behave in your own country or your home.
But when we go abroad, what we do and say will not only represent our own personality but also our counry, even our race.

Just a example: If there is a fat man from Mars named Joe. You won't say fat Joe, you will say fat Martian

If Joe did something guilty, you would not say that Joe was a criminal. Usually we say that a Martian is a criminal

Hope that i express my point clearly

heehee

[Sierra]

I think redrobbo is kidding, donuticus.

That's interesting you have one American parent. How did they come to be in England?

[wolfstalin]

As someone who has been stalked on SF by labour-its constantly posting that 'he lives in America' as if that disenfranchises me to post in some way, I have found that this form of racism seems to stretch much further than one might at first think, It also seems to be centered on the left rather than the right.

Of course there are those really stupid people who seem to think that Jordanthorpe is located on the west coast which only illustrates to me that their own parochial slant views anyone who doesn't live in their back yard as a breed apart in some way and not entitled to hold a view of voice here it here on SF.

The extent that I've been attacked has even gone to the lengths of starting a thread about me saying that I shouldn't be allowed to post on the St Luke's thread, it even had a poll which unfortunately for the reds came out 86% in favor of me.

[JoeP]

With respect to the OP's question - IMO, yes, it is a form of racism, and it sucks.

Take a look at Nick Cohen's 'What's Left' for some comment on this phenomena.

[Tipex]

I was brought up to believe americans were friendly, cheerful people.

[AJ sheffield]

Originally Posted by mattyuk1

I was brought up to believe americans were friendly, cheerful people.

Me too, and the ones I have met have all been just that.

[JoeP]

The vast mnajority of Americans I've met have been fine, and I enjoy dealing with them and doing business with them.

Like us they occasionally make bad decisions as a country, have a few dodgy business men, etc. Just like any country in the world.

[Wildcat]

I don't think anyone does think all Americans are fat or stupid. There are many examples that anyone regardless of political persuassion can pick to disprove this sort of generalisation. I believe that the US leads the world on obesity and does have problems with the quality of the education it provides particularly in the inner cities, but of course acknowledging this is a long way from making any claims about all americans.

The anti-americanism criticism of the left has nothing at all to do with racism. It is one of those, you aren't patriotic enough arguments, an argument that is without any merit especially not when the left in the US claim a heritage that goes right back to the original aims of people like Jefferson and Franklin that founded the united states in the first place. There is nothing more worthy about the asperations at the founders of the US than the rights of freedom of speech and thought, rights that the American right are attacking through the patriot act and the like. That is not my view of respect for their history nor of what patriotism is about.

[SimpyTimpy]

Generally racism is socially acceptable if the target is perceived as being equal, or more fortunate than yourself - even if that isn't always the case.

For example, racism to white persons in this country is often overlooked.

[rubydazzler]

It might more properly be termed 'prejudice' or 'bigotry'. I don't think you can call it 'racism'.

Describing xenophobic, bigoted or prejudiced attitudes against other countries inhabitants as 'racism' merely, imo, devalues the more serious aspects of it.

[Fareast]

I think in the U.K. in particular, we have been inundated for a long time within our culture with the idea that ' Fair Play ' is a graet concept. I think it IS a great idea and one of our best traits, generally speaking.

However, it does ' overstep the mark ' sometimes and becomes the ' Goliath is always wrong ; David is always right ' syndrome. Every situation should be judged mainly on its own merits. That doesn't mean that we can't learn from history but looking at things constantly with a fresh, honest, genuine eye, should stop us having a ' knee jerk ' reaction to all things American, Russian or Chinese.

[McLovin]

Well said donuticus, a lot of people seem to be ignorant of the fact that making generalisations as you have mentioned isn't acceptable. Is it racist? Not sure it can be called racist as the USA aren't a race as one, they are a nation.

However that said they are still being prejudice and this shouldn't be condoned IMO on the forum in the same way as racism is not condoned.

I've seen comedy sketches on TV that go into the "fat, stupid" american generalisation and wonder what sort of backlash would come if they were doing something blatently racist.

An interesting debate mate, well done.

[prettygood]

Although there is some anti-Americanism around, the accusation is often used to shout down legitimate criticism of US foreign policy. If you watch right-wing US attack dogs like Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity, they'll often throw the cheap label of "anti-American", "traitor" or "Al-Qaida supporter" at people who criticise the policies of the Bush administration. It's a way of stifling opposing viewpoints and reducing everything to the idiotic unnuanced "good versus evil" dichotomy of the Bush administration.

To the anti-Americanism that is around though, it's pointless because you can't make generalisations about the US. I've visited there recently and the main thing I learned from the trip is that America is hugely diverse. It's a continent not a country. There isn't any one label you can use for Americans because there'll always be people there who don't fit into that category.

[Kamble]

All the Americans I've met in person have been really nice, intelligent people - and none of them were fat.
However the majority of Americans I see on TV are fat, stupid, and annoying. And I don't like the US government and its policies. But as has been mentioned before, you can't describe all the people in the US in one go, there are so many people, so many different kinds of people - look up a song called 'who is this America dem speak of today?' by a band called Antibalas - good stuff.
In the meantime, have you seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by prettygood

It's a continent not a country. There isn't any one label you can use for Americans because there'll always be people there who don't fit into that category.

The Americas are a continent (i.e. South America and North America combined) but the USA, or how it is known as "America" is most definitely a country.

It's made up of 50 states (2 of those being their own country) but it is defined as a country.