Should Palestine be reformed?

Olec · 05-12-2007, 19:54

Is it about time that Israel is abolished, all the Jewish invadors go back to their original where they came from, the Palestinian people are free to live in their rightful country, and we don't ever, ever create a 'country' out of guilt for a minority group again, could the East finally be at peace, or is it not worth the politicians losing the Jewish vote, what do you think?

cgksheff · 05-12-2007, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olec

.... and we don't ever, ever create a 'country' out of guilt for a minority group again, .........

Like Scotland?

Jason Bourne · 05-12-2007, 20:00

Probably the latter.

Our leaders seem to prefer the idea of invading all of Israel's enemies in the Middle East rather than putting any pressure on Israel to fix its borders and allow a viable Palestinian state.

If Israel can't live in Peace with the Arab's that's Israel problem.

Why should the American and British armies be used as Israeli cannon fodder?

Wildcat · 05-12-2007, 20:03

Abolition of Israel is a practical impossibility.

What Israel should do is join the international treaties that control chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, they need to properly seek to make peace with the palestinians and Syria, they should withdraw from the occupied territories and dismantle the illegal settlements, release Marwan Barghouti, Vanunu and all the other political prisoners.

Heyesey · 05-12-2007, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Bourne

If Israel can't live in Peace with the Arab's that's Israel problem.

How do you propose that they live in peace with a huge group of people who's sworn and dedicated objective is to wipe them out?

Jason Bourne · 05-12-2007, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heyesey

How do you propose that they live in peace with a huge group of people who's sworn and dedicated objective is to wipe them out?

And don't the Israelis make similar threats against Arab nations?

We could ask similar questions to the Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip. What's it like living in an open air prison where your basic rights are denied and you're forced to live in a refugee camp?

What's it like living an a Palestine that's slowly being 'wiped from the map' by an expanding Israel?

But so as to answer the question, and not to duck the issue, Wildcat has an answer above. If Israel reverts to its 1967 borders and allows the creation of a viable Palestinian state, then the Israelis and the Arabs could come to a lasting peace agreement.

Currently, Israel makes loud noises about demanding that Palestine fulfil her obligations while making no attempt whatsoever to fulfil the obligations required of it.

Heyesey · 05-12-2007, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Bourne

If Israel reverts to its 1967 borders and allows the creation of a viable Palestinian state, then the Israelis and the Arabs could come to a lasting peace agreement.

How can you come to a lasting peace agreement with a group of people whose sworn and dedicated objective is to wipe you out?

Still waiting. And in case you've forgotten, Israel's 1967 borders were only secured in the first place because they fought off a multiple invasion by Arab countries in the very instant that their country was formed.

cgksheff · 05-12-2007, 20:28

Are the Palestinians in camps aware of the massive corruption amongst their leadership that has kept them in poverty?

Jason Bourne · 05-12-2007, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgksheff

Are the Palestinians in camps aware of the massive corruption amongst their leadership that has kept them in poverty?

They did, so they voted in Hamas over Fatah.

Surprise surprise, the Israelis use this as yet another stick to beat the Palestinians with

Jason Bourne · 05-12-2007, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heyesey

How can you come to a lasting peace agreement with a group of people whose sworn and dedicated objective is to wipe you out?

Still waiting.

I've already answered your question. No need to repeat it in bold

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heyesey

And in case you've forgotten, Israel's 1967 borders were only secured in the first place because they fought off a multiple invasion by Arab countries in the very instant that their country was formed

The fact that Israel was only formed by the forced expulsion of the Palestinians is something you neglect to mention.

cgksheff · 05-12-2007, 20:55

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't this territory under Turkish rule, prior to all this stuff?

Wildcat · 05-12-2007, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgksheff

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't this territory under Turkish rule, prior to all this stuff?

From 1922 to 1948 it was a British Protectorate.

Zionist terrorists like Irgun were operating in the region in the 1930s.

cgksheff · 05-12-2007, 21:32

So if it shouldn't belong to the Jews, why not give it back to the Turks?

Funky_Gibbon · 05-12-2007, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Bourne

And don't the Israelis make similar threats against Arab nations?

Off the top of my head I can't think of any Israeli who has ever said they want to wipe their Arab neighbours off the face of the earth. I can think of quite a few examples of the Arabs doing so though and a few times they've attempted to do it.

Wildcat · 05-12-2007, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgksheff

So if it shouldn't belong to the Jews, why not give it back to the Turks?

The people living there have the right to self determination, surely, otherwise they are little more than slaves.

cgksheff · 05-12-2007, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat

The people living there have the right to self determination, surely, otherwise they are little more than slaves.

That's OK.

Let's have a democratic vote amongst all residents.

Wildcat · 05-12-2007, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgksheff

That's OK.

Let's have a democratic vote amongst all residents.

Once you add in the refugees you would have a muslim majority in the Palestine/Israel area. Lovely as this may sound on paper a return to 1967 borders, is more practical.

Jason Bourne · 05-12-2007, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funky_Gibbon

Off the top of my head I can't think of any Israeli who has ever said they want to wipe their Arab neighbours off the face of the earth. I can think of quite a few examples of the Arabs doing so though and a few times they've attempted to do it.

The Israelis are wiping Palestine off the map by expanding their settlements into the West Bank, in spite of the Oslo Peace Accord and against international law.

tom3t0 · 05-12-2007, 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funky_Gibbon

Off the top of my head I can't think of any Israeli who has ever said they want to wipe their Arab neighbours off the face of the earth. I can think of quite a few examples of the Arabs doing so though and a few times they've attempted to do it.

look at israels track record, i thought jews were supposed to be peaceful

SimpyTimpy · 05-12-2007, 22:16

I don't mean to make any offence to the Jewish population, or to in any way underestimate the horror of the holocaust but, in my humble opinion, the Jews did a fantastic job of using the holocaust as an excuse to get an independant country.

I saw Britain starts putting pressure on Israel to reform and not wait around for the states to do it; the Jewish vote in the USA counts for ALOT, in this country it counts for nothing compared to the votes of the Muslim population.

I mean, I think we're heading towards a 20% muslim population in this country? Why don't we act out the 'sensible, compromise policies' and make Israel fix their borders, create a Palistinean state and stay far away from acting violently to stop others being violent.