[aimee]

I am shocked by the lack of public information and local interest in major alteration to the city over the last 5 or more years, such as that of the Norfolk park regeneration which is still in progress. 13 seventeen storey blocks of flats, visible from all over the city, once 1000's of people's homes have been blasted into oblivion and more will follow, and nobody bats an eyelid . This year will see the end of the claywood flats overlooking the station and dominating the skyline, does anyone care?
I happen to think that such buildings should be considered as much apart of the cities architechtural heritage as traditional buildings like the town hall etc, and once made happy homes.It seems communities are being ripped apart for a more aesthetically pleasing skyline. Maybe i am wrong?Would any body agree with this or have an alternative opinion, or insiders view? Does any body else have any opinion on tower block living they would like to share, i would love to hear from you.
Aimee Ambrose

After having lived in a tower block on norfolk park for two year's, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. We were on the fourth floor and it was cold in winter ( we couldn't afford to use the underfloor heating ) as it was too expensive.

We were plagued with burglar's, there was alway's the danger of fire being started in the basement, we couldn't have got out as there was only a panel to kick out on to the next balcony and it didn't take us anywhere.

The doctor told us that if the lift broke down and he needed to come to the flat, he would refuse to walk up the stair's and the lift was alway's breaking down. On a sunday morning in summer, we were awakened by the resident's hammering down below repairing their car's.

Thank's but no thank's, after twenty four month's we had had enough, that is how long it took us to get out, even though we put our name down for an exchange as soon as we moved in.

[aimee]

to the anonymous person writing on norfolk park,
Thankyou for enlightening me! it was very interesting to hear from u. I am currently doing research into tower block living. if i may i would like to ask a few questions that you can answer if you wish.
Did u find that there were any bonuses to living in such a close knit environment?
Do u think that design was to blame, the people that lived there or the managmentand maintenance of the estate?
If you could identify one factor that u attribute the downfall of the estate to what would it be?
And, how well do u feel the council dealt with your displeasure? Do u now feel satisfied with where you live?

I am extremly keen to represent an insiders view, and hope u can help with this. Thankyou for your reply.
Aimee

[A.Stringer]

You may be interested in the S.U.R.G. site? Email me if you are.Cheers.

[bhunaboy]

I used to live in the Norfolk Park flats from age 0 to 8 years old and they were great times. However, when they knocked down the Kelvin flats, a lot of what some would call 'unsavoury types' were moved onto Norfolk Park, making it easier for the younger residents there to buy drugs! I do believe that tower block living is a thing of the past and I wouldn't want to live there now. 15 floors with a broken lift?? Or when the lift does work, someone has ****** in it?? People to the left, right, below and above ya!!!!

[Joanna]

Hi Aimee,
I am fascinated by tower blocks, especially in Sheffield as I was born there. Over the last couple of years, I have gone round taking photos of many tower blocks in the area. I found it helpful looking at the Housing Defects Survey (1985) which is available in the local studies section of the library. This has info on the blocks, problems, how they were made, floor plans etc. Stuart Massey from Sheffield Council who deals with the Norfolk Park tower blocks and residents has also given me a lot of information on tower blocks in general. I also spoke to a couple living in the Hanover block who told me that they had to live amonst criminals who begged them for money and set light to cars, etc. You could also try the National Sustainable Tower Blocks Initative. If I can help you further, please e-mail me on BATTENJOANNA@HOTMAIL.COM

[RPG]

welcome to the forums JOANNA

[Joanna]

Hi Aimee,

Joanna again. I Forgot to say that I also spoke to some residents at the tower grange block at Norfolk Park and both were very positive. One lady felt very secure, and had never been burgled.

A great website just for photos of Sheffield is http://chris.croome.net/photos/2002/Sheffield_21_September/,

[andy1702]

Hi Aimee. It's nice to know someone is taking an interest in the more modern architecture in Sheffield.

I remember not so many years ago travelling through the Norfolk Park area when it was still covered in tower blocks. But for some reason it never seemed to have the 'bad atmosphere' of some similar developments.

Critics of the blocks should remember that when they were built in the 50s & 60s they were high class developments using cutting edge technology. It was clean, cost effective, modern housing for the growing population of a city still recovering from the bomb damage sustained during the war.

In those early days people actually wanted to live in these bright, modern and affordable developments. But it was precisely their affordability which was to be their downfall. The city council (along with others all over the country) soon realised these towers were the cheapest way of putting a roof over peoples heads. The so-called 'undesirables' were sheperded into them in their thousands so their old homes could make way for slum clearance projects. This is where the problems began.

In addition, the technology to construct such buildings was far from fool-proof. Without the benefits of our 21st century energy efficient heating or double glazing they were often cold and damp in winter. Something which could not be forseen until the buildings were in use. The concrete used for the constructoion itself began to fail, wiith the steel reinforcing inside expanding due to rust and shattering the concrete surrounding it.

And so in just a few short years these engineering and arcitectural wonders had gone from being show pieces to embarrasments.

The main problem with the social aspect of living in tower blocks had been the introduction of the 'undesirables'. These people were not created by this kind of living. They had been around for many years living in the slums of our towns and cities. However now for the first time their activities were being inflicted upon the majority of normal decent people who had lived in the show piece towers from new. As the blocks became increasingly effected by crime, the more law abiding citizens understandably moved away. Empty flats were then there to be filled and the only element of the community who felt inclined to stay was that which was already causing the problems.

The strange thing is that as many of these buildings sadly come to the end of their short lives, those inner-city slum houses from where people were moved and which were not demolished are now desirable again to the extent that few residents of the tower block would ever be able to afford to live in them!!!!

Meanwhile, refurbished towers are also becoming increasingly desirable. Some of the refurbished blocks around Sheffield are again show pieces. How sad that in many cases it has taken private companies to see the potential in these wasted assets of our cities.

But for me, the interest is in the slice of the past these buildings represent. They are arcitectural marvels crammed with more period features than any other type of building I know. Just because they are not a few hundred years old does not mean they are not worth saving. I'm sure we will all mourn their passing when it is too late.

Finally a not about Claywood, overlooking the Station. About a year ago I took a walk up the hill to these three towers. There was no feeling of urban crime or a deserted wasteland about them. Climbing the stairs in one of the buildings there were views over the city anyone in their right mind would kill to wake up to every morning. Just outside the door is a park and the whole of the city centre in within easy reach.

Although not refurbished these blocks were recently painted and so are clean and bright while retaining much of their period feel. This is probably the reason they are my favourite block in the city from an architectural point of view.

Being close together and tucked into a small ledge on the hillside which it would be difficult to utilise for anything else I have to question the wisdom of the city council regarding the distruction of this landmark.

There are sites VERY close to the foot of these flate which could be of significant arcielogical interest too (a fact not many people know) so why not leave them as a brightly coloured reminder of Sheffield's vibrant post-war past? After all, the people of this city have up until now always been rightly proud of it's past.

[RPG]

Welcome to the forums andy1702

[Joanna]

Yes andy, i believe you were with me when we went to claywood. I know some people hate living in tower blocks and i totally understand, but then again i don't think they should all be demoloished. I know it costs £40,000 to renovate just one flat in a block but it would be fantastic if at least some of the twin towers could be saved! Claywood is so close to the city centre, a great location to live at, if they were renovated with proper security.

[RPG - Please, check for caps lock before posting]

[Joanna]

Has anyone got any information about the Burncross flats at Chapeltown? Is it true that the walls were so rotton that a resident's video machine went through the wall?

[cellarboy]

Originally posted by "aimee"

I happen to think that such buildings should be considered as much apart of the cities architechtural heritage as traditional buildings like the town hall etc, and once made happy homes.

Have you ever lived in one of these buildings? My grandparents lived in the flats overlooking Norfolk Park and it was a hell-hole. This was 10-12 years ago too, before it got REALLY bad. I used to deliver newspapers on Claywood and it was a scary place too.

Personally, Park Hill should have been torn down or had massive renovations by now too, but they went and got the buildings listed. What a crock. Most of the resident of Park Hill (myself included) just couldn't believe this nonesence, with the contrete crumbling and the ant invasions.

There was a good reason I refered to the place as 'Stalag Park Hill'....

And frankly, it absolutely cracks me up than a good portion of the people here advocating the saving of the tower blocks has never actually lived in one. It's one thing to visit, but try living in them for a few years. Once you've had your front door kicked in a couple of times while your out shopping or had to walk up 14 flights of stairs because the lift is broken, or when it is working, travel 14 flights holding your nose and trying to avoid standing in the puddle of urine on the floor. Meanwhile you're freezing during the winter because the heating is garbage. After you've done that, come back and tell us that they should be saved.

Bloody 'tourists'.

[Joanna]

I would just like to ask these poor victims who lived in tower blocks; what did the council etc try to do to help you when you were victims of crime? I am guessing that the burglars lived in the tower block too? Why the hell weren't they chucked out and put in prison?

What other problems were there? Did you experience problems with people putting bottles down the rubbish chute during the night? Were there any rats?

I also wonder why Park Hill has been listed? It is totally dangerous with concrete falling, surely, one day, someone will get seriously hurt.

[cellarboy]

Originally posted by "JOANNA"

I would just like to ask these poor victims who lived in tower blocks; what did the council etc try to do to help you when you were victims of crime? I am guessing that the burglars lived in the tower block too? Why the hell weren't they chucked out and put in prison.

A) Because you assume you actually know who the people are
B) Because if you did know who they were and went to the police, you'd better hope that they, their friends and their family went to prison too because, as the saying goes, "They know where you live".

Originally posted by "JOANNA"

What other problems were there? Did you experience problems with people putting bottles down the rubbish chute during the night? Were there any rats?.

How about the girl being killed on Hyde Park when some kid dropped a TV off the balcony, the constant car thefts and break-ins. The gangs hanging around the stairs and lifts at night.

Originally posted by "JOANNA"

I also wonder why Park Hill has been listed? It is totally dangerous with concrete falling, surely, one day, someone will get seriously hurt.

Why was it listed? "A shining example of sixties architecture," apparantly. In my opinion it was done to free the council from the need for major renovations to the entire complex. Just keep performing band-aid fixes and worry about something serious when it happens..

I don't want to be rude, but the fact that you have to ask these questions at all just illustrates my point that you really can't understand what it like to live in one of these buildings without actually having lived there. You can always find those people who just love it there, but for every one of those I'm sure you'll find 3 more who are unhappy and probably scared out of their minds most of the time. Having the buildings pulled down and being relocated to somewhere better (I'm not sure there's anywhere worse these days with Kelvin gone) is probably a godsend for them.

I was born and raised on Park Hill Flats. Lived there for 27 years and you know, until my early teens the place wasn't bad at all. Nice community spirit, street parties...nice. By the time I left, I was scared to walk around at night, didn't know if my car was going to be there in the morning when I went to work or if it was, how much damage had some gang done to it trying to pry the locks or smashing the window to go for a joy ride.

Sure, these things happen in other places but when you have such a concentration of people like that things just amplified just that bit more.

When I came back over a couple of years ago and brought my wife to see where I grew up, she was honestly shocked and couldn't wait to get away from the place.

But hey, guess it's character building, eh? At least I don't suffer the same utter shock and horror as my new fellow countrymen do on the rare occasion a child is abducted or a drive-by shooting is committed. Guess that's a good thing........right?

[Joanna]

Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply. You are quite right, I have never actually lived in a 'sink' estate, but have lived near them, and this is why I asked those questions. Because of my interest, I have always wanted to get an insider's view of what it was like to live in one of these flats. I found your account extremely interesting and yet immensely disturbing. Obviously, I can't fully understand the terror of living there, as I never have - but on numerous occasions (i.e my firiend's grandparents living in one and a friend's employee living at Park Hill) I have been in a tower block and walked along the deck flats at park Hill. Just walking in the lobby scared the life out of me, so I do admire anyone who had to live there.

I also asked the questions to get an honest account as when you read stories in the newspaper, you never know how biased or exaggerated the facts are. If you have any other pieces of information, please tell me.

[spook]

I was in Sheffield last week and paid a visit to the Claywood flats where I used to live with my parents. I was shocked to see the three blocks boarded up and apparantly ready for demolition, as I had every intention of going to the top to take some photos. My grandparents used to live in the Fitzwilliam block at the same time and visiting brought back so many happy memories. We moved out before they became bad - but I would agree with some other posters that these flats are part of the city's cultural landscape. The cholera monument and grounds next door were the scene of many happy hours for me as a nipper.
It will be a real shame to see them go.

[aimee]

Hi joanna,
Its Aimee (the one who started this topic) i hav nt been able to check the forum for quite some time cos i ve been doing exams etc. But there are some really interesting replies popping up. I am hoping to do some research over the summer into tower block living, and would appreciate any pointers on how to actually visit tower blocks in and sround sheffield as i have always thought it was not possible to enter if not permitted. I would love to see some of your photos ans hear some of your insights, i have some of my own, perhaps you could e mail me at-
aimee.ambrose@student.shu.ac.uk

Glad to find a fellow enthusiast!
Aimee

[aimee]

dear cellarboy,
I understand that you are in a way insulted by the ignorance of an outsider commenting on life inside a tower block when we have no first ahnd experience, however if we don t ask we will never know and appreciate the hardships involved.
As a social scientist i don t just want to take a distanced text book view, i want to hear the real story and hopefully prevent such grave mistakes being made in the future, tower blocks can be a success, i feel for your horrible experience though. Did you find any benefits at all?
Aimee

[aimee]

Its nice to hear that someone enjoyed their time at claywood, however it does appear to me that most people didnt have such a pleasant experience. But history is history, good and bad, we can t just white wash over architectural and social mistakes, we just have to learn from them and improve on them.
Maybe as achild you were sheltered from the realities of life at Claywood, perhaps your parents had to deal with it day to day but kept you protected? Surely a tower block is a mothers nightmare, supervision and safety wise, is nt it?
Opinions welcomed!
Aimee