[epiphany]

Greetings.

Does anyone have details of the regulations for new build apartment blocks regarding noise proofing? What year were they brought into force and which body regulates them?

When we looked round an apartment in Jet Centro (not moving in there incidentally), the agent mentioned there was concrete between the floors and walls - is this a specific part of the regulations?

I'm just curious because I only hear people complain about noisy neighbours in old flats and house conversions. I know in the last flat we were in the walls were crap and you could hear EVERYTHING including from the shop below. In the flat before that, we could hear footsteps from the tenants above. These were both dated builds.

Thanks for any info.

[muddycoffee]

I cannot help you with the details of the regulations, but new flats are built using reinforced concrete, because it is dense and offers good sound insulation. And as long as you don't have anyone above who is selfish and stupid enough to install laminate flooring, you should find it has good sound insulation.

Office blocks are often built with flooring on steel beams, because it is quicker to build and can support much larger floor spans. But offers much less good sound insulation, however the actual floor plates become much thicker and you can get less floors in a tall building of a specific height.

It is far better to have a concrete floor in a flat.

[topflat29]

I remember that Persimmons built a block in Docklands , London and the sound insulation was not satisfactory. Tower Hamletts Council building control ordered improvement remedial work before they would pass the flats. The Developer had to vacate some of the already occupied flats to add additional layer of plaster board on both sides to rectify the problem.

You should approach the council planning department for details for meeting noise limits.

[epiphany]

Originally Posted by muddycoffee

And as long as you don't have anyone above who is selfish and stupid enough to install laminate flooring, you should find it has good sound insulation.

But wouldn't the concrete between floors make the above flats using laminate flooring irrelevant?

[muddycoffee]

Originally Posted by epiphany

But wouldn't the concrete between floors make the above flats using laminate flooring irrelevant?

No, you would hear the clonking and banging transmitting through the ceiling as the residents above move around the rooms. I understand that most apartments have a clause in the lease whereby you cannot put laminate flooring down due to this.

[epiphany]

In my sister's flat in West One, she had laminate flooring and she was on the 4th floor

I'm just a bit wary about moving into an apartment if all you're gonna hear is stomp stomp stomp. After the last two flats being made out of cardboard, I think I'd go crazy.

[muddycoffee]

Well west one is a student place and extremely noisy. Just search some threads to find out about it!

[Phylis]

Originally Posted by muddycoffee

I cannot help you with the details of the regulations, but new flats are built using reinforced concrete, because it is dense and offers good sound insulation. And as long as you don't have anyone above who is selfish and stupid enough to install laminate flooring, you should find it has good sound insulation.

Office blocks are often built with flooring on steel beams, because it is quicker to build and can support much larger floor spans. But offers much less good sound insulation, however the actual floor plates become much thicker and you can get less floors in a tall building of a specific height.

It is far better to have a concrete floor in a flat.

New flats are built using concrete because it is cheaper than steel. The concrete floors are required to stop the spread of fire.

Most low rise (3/4 floor) flats are timber framed as again this is cheaper and quicker but again have concrete floors.

[Tony]

A few facts might be helpful here because much of the above is misleading to say the least.

Noise transmission between dwellings and rooms has been a consideration in the Building Regulations for as long as I can remember. They have been steadily increased over the years.

Concrete has interesting properties and it is not necessarily a guarantee of silence, and can behave the opposite way. It isn't really any cheaper or more expensive than steel, it's just different and suits different types of buildings. New methods of concrete slab design can knock feet off the height of a building and THAT can make it cheaper.

Concrete is not required for fire protection.
Laminate doesn't make it noisy.
New types of lightweight stud partition offer better sound and thermal insulation than brick or concrete.

I can't think of any local buildings that mix timber frames and concrete floors though it is possible. More likely that they are a timber / insulation composite.

Low rise buildings are not generally timber framed; they are usually traditional construction, ie masonry, perhaps with a bit of steel to cater for progressive collapse requirements.

At the end of the day, it's not the materials that assure quiet nights, it's the design and the ability or willingness of the builder to build what the architect has drawn, which sometimes doesn't happen, but usually does.

You want an guarantee of silence? Buy a detached house and never open the windows.

[epiphany]

Thanks for the replies, all.

I will certainly buy a detached house... when I'm made of money.

I'm not after complete silence, just peace and quiet without the sound of a herd of elephants being amplified through the floor above. If this is a common problem, I don't know how so many people put up with it.

Problem is, when looking round apartments, you don't get a good idea of noise, and the landlords/agents rarely know what to say when you ask about noise proofing... as if it's not important!!!

[Phylis]

Originally Posted by Tony

A few facts might be helpful here because much of the above is misleading to say the least.

Noise transmission between dwellings and rooms has been a consideration in the Building Regulations for as long as I can remember. They have been steadily increased over the years.

Concrete has interesting properties and it is not necessarily a guarantee of silence, and can behave the opposite way. It isn't really any cheaper or more expensive than steel, it's just different and suits different types of buildings. New methods of concrete slab design can knock feet off the height of a building and THAT can make it cheaper.

Concrete is not required for fire protection.
Laminate doesn't make it noisy.
New types of lightweight stud partition offer better sound and thermal insulation than brick or concrete.

I can't think of any local buildings that mix timber frames and concrete floors though it is possible. More likely that they are a timber / insulation composite.

Low rise buildings are not generally timber framed; they are usually traditional construction, ie masonry, perhaps with a bit of steel to cater for progressive collapse requirements.

At the end of the day, it's not the materials that assure quiet nights, it's the design and the ability or willingness of the builder to build what the architect has drawn, which sometimes doesn't happen, but usually does.

You want an guarantee of silence? Buy a detached house and never open the windows.

I can list you a few developments using timber framed buildings with concrete floors. Where shall we start:

David Wilson Homes - Oxclose Park. The apartments blocks are timber framed with concrete departmental floors.

McInerney Homes - Stannington as above.

McInerney Homes Westgate as above

Also David Wilson Homes and Shepherd Homes have started to use timber framed on a lot of their sites for low rise houses.

On another note you will see concrete used in steelframed buildings to act as fire protection to the steel members within the structure.

[Tony]

I'm not arguing with you Phylis, I'm merely sharing my experience, but do all those schemes really have concrete floors? What's a departmental floor though?

And regardless of whether somebody has used concrete or not, it is not required for fire protection (as I said earlier)

[frankief]

For what it's worth i'll give my observations, as I work in the construction industry.
Low rise blocks up to three storeys are usually either load bearing masonry with a beam & block floor or timber frame & floors, the ground floor being concrete, upper floors timber.
When you get hi rise blocks a structural frame is needed: this can be in steel with concrete infill floors or insitu concrete. Steel is a lot quicker to construct and cheaper but steel members need to be encased in fire resistant board or sprayed to meet regs. Concrete obviously does not need fire protection but is more expensive.
Internal partitions are lightweight to cheapen the foundation design. Their sound isulation properties have been commented on by others!
Needless to say, the builders take the cheapest option. And as regards laminate flooring - God help you if you live under someone who is selfish/tasteless enough to install it! Most leases now prohibit it as it is effectively removing a layer of insulation (carpet).

[Phylis]

Originally Posted by frankief

For what it's worth i'll give my observations, as I work in the construction industry.
Low rise blocks up to three storeys are usually either load bearing masonry with a beam & block floor or timber frame & floors, the ground floor being concrete, upper floors timber.
When you get hi rise blocks a structural frame is needed: this can be in steel with concrete infill floors or insitu concrete. Steel is a lot quicker to construct and cheaper but steel members need to be encased in fire resistant board or sprayed to meet regs. Concrete obviously does not need fire protection but is more expensive.
Internal partitions are lightweight to cheapen the foundation design. Their sound isulation properties have been commented on by others!
Needless to say, the builders take the cheapest option. And as regards laminate flooring - God help you if you live under someone who is selfish/tasteless enough to install it! Most leases now prohibit it as it is effectively removing a layer of insulation (carpet).

The upper floors in apartments can not be timber as they transmit noise and dont comply with current fire regulations. The concrete floors create areas which in theory should contain fire in the dwelling in which it occurs instead of spreading through out the whole structure.

[Tony]

I'm afraid that there's not a grain of truth in any of what you've just said there Phylis.

[Phylis]

Try Part B of the building regs sections b2 and b3

[frankief]

Try this link showing a section through a timber frame building.
http://www.centuryhomes.co.uk/centuk...ment-Floor.gif

As you can see fire protection is achieved by using extra plasterboard & insulation quilt. I have never come across concrete floors (precast or insitu) with a timber frame. The loadings would be just too much.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Phylis

Try Part B of the building regs sections b2 and b3

What about them?

[Sheff2006]

Originally Posted by epiphany

Greetings.

Does anyone have details of the regulations for new build apartment blocks regarding noise proofing? What year were they brought into force and which body regulates them?

When we looked round an apartment in Jet Centro (not moving in there incidentally), the agent mentioned there was concrete between the floors and walls - is this a specific part of the regulations?

I'm just curious because I only hear people complain about noisy neighbours in old flats and house conversions. I know in the last flat we were in the walls were crap and you could hear EVERYTHING including from the shop below. In the flat before that, we could hear footsteps from the tenants above. These were both dated builds.

Thanks for any info.

Im also interested/curious/plain nosey to know about the soundproofing in the Jet Centro building. Can anyone offer any advice/help please???