Ward bug errors cause 90 deaths

cloudybay · 11-10-2007, 20:09

In 21st Century Britain, this is allowed to happen...............filthy beds, wards and complicit staff. The CEO resigned last week. This is not just down to a lack of money or resources but more to do with an abject disregard for humanity itself. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7040159.stm

purdyamos · 11-10-2007, 21:47

It's been said so many times but the measure of a civilization is how it treats the most vulnerable members. I am disappointed that this thread has not attracted any other replies. Where are all the ranters, the loudspeakers of moral outrage? Or could it be that this utter contempt for the sick and elderly is actually widespread in our current culture, and no-one wants to talk about it and just hope it will just go away?

Bloomdido · 11-10-2007, 21:53

I had a look at the report via the BBC website. There are pictures in there that are truly horrendous. The chief exec on £150k plus benefits resigned and the Health Secretary has suspended her termination payout.

purdyamos · 12-10-2007, 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by purdyamos

It's been said so many times but the measure of a civilization is how it treats the most vulnerable members. I am disappointed that this thread has not attracted any other replies. Where are all the ranters, the loudspeakers of moral outrage? Or could it be that this utter contempt for the sick and elderly is actually widespread in our current culture, and no-one wants to talk about it and just hope it will just go away?

So this thread, about the culture of inhumanity, dies a death through lack of outrage or disgust.

Another thread about the same case looks at the issue of money, and is thriving with hot debate. Which just goes to show what people think really matters in all of this. Is that really the measure of society?

Commander · 12-10-2007, 01:13

Start a thread about celebrities or Eastenders and the suckers will be rolling in.

And if you throw in a bit of sport and some female topless models then the forum would probably collapse.

No, lets not talk about our elderly being 'left to die' through incompetence and lets sweep all the knife and gun crime under the carpet.

Oh is there something seriously threatening us in the UK, i know, where is that big pot of shiny gloss?

T/C

Heyesey · 12-10-2007, 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by purdyamos

So this thread, about the culture of inhumanity, dies a death through lack of outrage or disgust.

Or sleep. I wasn't even here until now.

I haven't read the details of this case: is it merely claimed, or has it now been proven, that hospital failures were the cause? Probably a moot point given the amount of evidence, but people are still innocent until proven guilty.

And yes, it's thoroughly outrageous. If negligence is the cause, then manslaughter should be on the cards for somebody.

*edit* ok, I've read some more of the details now. It would appear that not only has there been manslaughter, but also perversion of the course of justice, by recording false causes of death to cover up the failings. It begins to look like a throw-away-the-key job to me.

Alastair · 12-10-2007, 08:25

And Sheffield Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust are any better?

Well the Hallamshire is OK, but the Northern General is horrible.

*Cinderella* · 12-10-2007, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by purdyamos

So this thread, about the culture of inhumanity, dies a death through lack of outrage or disgust.

Another thread about the same case looks at the issue of money, and is thriving with hot debate. Which just goes to show what people think really matters in all of this. Is that really the measure of society?

Unfortunately the answer could well be 'yes'. And it's actually characterised by the perverse culture at the hospitals concerned, where short-term financial gain took priority over all humanitarian concerns.

It's not even as if one can be certain that things are any different elsewhere; it's just that others haven't been caught out by similar tragedy yet.

cgksheff · 12-10-2007, 09:00

Children grow up doing what they want and without discipline.

They grow into a workforce that cannot be bothered to do what they are paid for ....
.... and a layer of supervisors/managers that don't/can't ensure that jobs get done properly.

Add to that a layer of incompetant governance that have no idea that they are making things worse.

The Health Service is not alone in this, it is sapping our society all over.

Becky B · 12-10-2007, 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastair

And Sheffield Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust are any better?

Yes.

Haven't read the news story yet, I'll be back later.........

scentral · 12-10-2007, 09:30

Spot the difference:

Two people oversee multiple deaths to 'meets targets'.

One is tried for war crimes, one is in line for a bonus for doing a good job.

One works for the SS, one works for the NHS.

Heyesey · 12-10-2007, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by scentral

Spot the difference:

Two people oversee multiple deaths to 'meets targets'.

One is tried for war crimes, one is in line for a bonus for doing a good job.

One works for the SS, one works for the NHS.

The first difference that springs to mind is that an SS officer's job was to kill people.

The second is that any NHS manager who oversees multiple deaths is not in line for a bonus; witness the one in this thread's topic, who has had it suspended and will lose it altogether if found to be negligent.

scentral · 12-10-2007, 12:38

Blimey, that took longer than I expected!

No, the suits who climb the greasy pole to 'get on' in the NHS do not get a bonus for killing people. They get a bonus for cutting back on cleaning etc. which leads to the same thing.

Anyway, they may be saying she won't get a bonus but you can bet it'll be done 'back-door' - gardening leave, new position found, bonus paid.

Heyesey · 12-10-2007, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by scentral

Blimey, that took longer than I expected!

No, the suits who climb the greasy pole to 'get on' in the NHS do not get a bonus for killing people. They get a bonus for cutting back on cleaning etc. which leads to the same thing.

Anyway, they may be saying she won't get a bonus but you can bet it'll be done 'back-door' - gardening leave, new position found, bonus paid.

Why bother asking a question if you're not going to accept the real answer to it?

scentral · 12-10-2007, 13:00

Yawn. It was a rhetorical question. (Look it up)

heavenlyarts · 12-10-2007, 13:06

Last time I stayed in hospital the nurse wanted to change my drip AFTER changing a colostomy bag and without washing hands in between

Zamo · 12-10-2007, 13:39

The problem is self-serving managers who are more interested in their careers than the patients. If they dedicated as much time and effort into actually providing quality care, instead of the illusion of care by covering up problems and manipulating statistics, then such cases would be far fewer.

kittenta · 12-10-2007, 16:23

I once sat and watched two 'cleaners' (ha ha ha) washing down the waiting room seats in the Northen General, well washing half of each seat as it were with a bucket each of water so dirty that it was black

. If that is just off the seats i'd hate to see the beds! There is no wonder people go into hospital and end up more ill than when they went in.

hennypenny · 12-10-2007, 16:50

To be honest I feel that the trust manager has been made a scapegoat.

Yes it is disgusting that the hospital was in this state, and it is down to her decisions, but what was her job role described as? Was it described as her being there to keep infection down and make sure the patients had good quality of care, and to make sure the staffing levels were high? Or was she told her job was to work within a budget, and to make sure that the money spent was cut regularly?

I would be willing to bet that her job role was far more heavily biased towards keeping finances in order than towards patient care

Before the infection got out of control, I would love to know what sort of annual reports she was getting, and whether the board ever raised the question of she was spending too little in certain areas, or did they just praise her for making the cuts they required?

cgksheff · 12-10-2007, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by hennypenny

To be honest I feel that the trust manager has been made a scapegoat.

Scapegoat .. maybe. But she should go.

As should all the incompetants that are being overpaid for underperforming.

When the idiots started getting their hands on the health service, the professionals were pushed out and HR/Accounting Clerks got promoted.

I know of one idiot that had maintained a £25,000 clerical position managed to become a Trust Director at over £90,000 within a year.

I know how to keep things clean.
I know how to manage staff.
I know that people are being infected and allowd to die through incimpetance.