[Claireb]

Hi, after some very careful consideration (of about 2 yrs!) I am on the verge of getting a boxer puppy. I know this is not ideal as I work full time, but I feel me and my partner still have a lot to offer a dog in the evenings and spending time together at the weekends.
There are a few senarios I am considering for the hours the dog will be left on it's own, e.g having a kennel and run in the garden, leaving it alone in the house, and possibly having a dog walker, plus my sister may also be around some days to spend some time with it.
I know most people will probably think that I shouldn't get a puppy if it will be left on it's own all day, but I am interested to find out what people think the best thing to do would be if I did go ahead??
PS. I can't consider an older dog as my partner is only comfortable around dogs he has know from pups

[Lindseyw]

Claire - firstly CONGRATS !!
Dont worry about the pup being alone, he / she will get used to it. If you feel you want to get a walker there a few on here who come highly recomended.
I wouldn't leave a dog / puppy outside as the risk of theft is high.

Dont forget pictures !!!

[Claireb]

Thanks, I have spoken to lots of people and done quite a bit of research, and most people have said that if the puppy is on it's own from the start it will be fine and won't know any different. If there was any way I could get round leaving it alone I would, but unfortunately I can't give up my full time job to look after my dog, and my circumstances won't change any time soon so it's this or nothing!
Thanks for your advice

[bunnykins]

have a look here


http://carpetviper.proboards81.com/index.cgi

[Lotti]

Hi Claire, how long is full time?

I'm not one for saying you can't have a dog if you work but it's important to consider some things...

If possible, take a couple of weeks off when you get the new pup just to ease him into being on his own. They do get used to it but shouldn't be left alone just like that, they should be left for longer and longer periods to get them used to it at first.

Also, puppies physically can't hold themselves, if they need to pee, they need to pee and expecting a puppy to learn not to pee in the house without taking him out every hour (preferably) is unfair The pup will not know what's expected and it will take longer to housetrain a confused puppy.

It would be best if you can get someone to come in a few times a day at first to take him out and praise him when he pees outside.

I'd usually advise crating pup while you're out but puppies shouldn't really be crated for more than 2 hours at a time max, crating a pup keeps it out of trouble, stopping it from harming itself or damaging your property. Once a puppy chews a piece of furniture, it's self-reinforcing and is much harder to teach the dog to only chew it's own chew toys. You need to ensure that pup doesn't get his teeth round anything out of bounds in the first place, if you're going to be too long to crate him, try getting some pen panels and putting them around the outside of a room so he can't get to worktops/furniture/skirting boards but can still have space.

I have to add that I wouldn't advise getting a young pup if someone can't take him out every hour, after play, after meals and before bed.
Also - separation anxiety occurs when a pup is bought and then left straight away, they need to be eased into being left for short periods that they can cope with and gradually building up the length of time that they can cope with being alone.

I know that you've made your mind up but I'd still be tempted to take the OH to meet some friends' dogs and go with him to do dog walking at a rescue kennel to build his confidence with dogs he doesn't know so that you can at least take on an older puppy that's already used to being left and who's bladder is fully developped

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Lotti]

Originally Posted by Claireb

Thanks, I have spoken to lots of people and done quite a bit of research, and most people have said that if the puppy is on it's own from the start it will be fine and won't know any different.

They do know different, they've been taken from a litter of pups where they were constantly occupied. The pup needs to be left alone from the start yes, but for graduating periods of time

[Lindseyw]

I think you will need to spend some time with the puppy at the start.
Opinions & experiences vary. Mine have been fine alone, but others may not.
I do however, know that Boxers take alot of training & are very social dogs so that may make a difference.

[Lotti]

Individuals are different however I don't feel it's worth running the risk of getting a pup and just hoping it's one of those that will be fine (particularly in a breed such as the boxer) for it to then turn out to have separation anxiety and you either have to take a heck of a lot more time off work to sort the problem out, or rehome the dog (if anybody will have a dog with SA) to someone who's in all day.

Claire, I know a lot of people recommend a puppy book by John Fisher I think? Something like 'before and after getting your puppy' (that may not be quite accurate) which, although I am yet to read it, is apparently very good and goes through all the details of things you have to do with a new puppy to give it the very best start, I know you've put a great deal of thought into this but if you haven't yet read this book it may be worthwhile reading to see if you will actually have the time, around work to do all of the things he suggests

[Claireb]

Thanks for your advice Lotti, there is nothing better than help from people who have experience and know what they're talking about 'in reality'. The last thing I would want to do would be to put the puppy through any stress, and I will try to get hold of the book.
Thanks x

[Moonbird]

I agree with all Lotti has said, i think to take a puppy away from its mom and littermates and leave it all alone for 8 hours a day is far to much for it and just begging for seperation anxiety, it would be extremley difficult to house train a puppy in those circumstances, and it would get very bored...you might get a lot of chewing problems.

Also a puppy is only a baby and needs several meals a day, how can you do this if your at work? i know how much you want a puppy and how much you will love it and do your best for it, and i don't like to put a downer on it for you....but i do hope that you will think again, it can't be kind to leave the puppy in its own mess, cold, hungry and lonely all day every day can it?
I know you said your partner cannot accept an older dog, but maybe if he was to look around some of the rescue kennels he might change his mind, there are also some lovely quiet gentle dogs in foster homes that would be ideal for you, any dog would take a settling in period though so you could get it used to being left alone.
Alternatively how about a couple of older(not tiny) kittens? they would keep you entertained for hours when you get home, and be company for each other while your away.
I'm sure the right pet is out there for you, but please don't get a young puppy

[medusa]

I'm extremely lucky that for all of Molly's previous abuse and being left all day the only things that have arisen as a behavioural problem is her fear of men and her barking and running at other dogs, and that's excitement and insecurity rather than viciousness- there could have been so many things that the maltreatment caused or enabled, and these things could have created problems for her for the rest of her life (and bearing in mind that she's a big dog, could also have spelled a death sentence for her).

There's just no way that you can predict that a puppy is going to be OK with being left all day when they grow up- and in the short term at least I don't think that leaving them all day is going to be helpful to you or the puppy (or your home). Toilet training is so important for the little ones- if you are only prepared to have a puppy then you need to understand that your circumstances may not be what's needed for a puppy.

There are plenty of gorgeous young adult dogs in need of homes that would fit your circumstances much better than a young puppy would. Taking on a slightly older dog would enable you to choose one who's calm and chilled when being left, and you'd know that they weren't going to be learning bad toilet habits through being left inside past the point of being able to control their bladder.

I understand that your partner doesn't want an older dog- in my opinion getting a small pup is incompatible with full time work that means that the puppy is left for 8 hours a day, so somewhere in your plans something has to give. Whether that's getting an older dog, or changing your work patterns, or not getting a dog at all, that bit's up to you.

[carpetviper]

I do know from experience boxers have whats professionally known as selective hearing. I love them to pieces but they need a lot of work as they tend to be very exiteable and mischeavous dogs but very cute.

[medusa]

Originally Posted by carpetviper

I do know from experience boxers have whats professionally known as selective hearing. I love them to pieces but they need a lot of work as they tend to be very exiteable and mischeavous dogs but very cute.

Cute shouldn't be what you focus on though- there's nothing very cute about coming home and finding wee and poo everywhere, or finding that a puppy has chewed the furniture, or shredded the bed, or pulled the door frames off.

[willman]

we've had most scenarios out of the 13 or so dogs we've personally experienced over the last 10 years.
so tbh you could get a perfect pet from day on or the puppy from hell.
i've got 3 adult dogs and they still pee etc in their room if left for long periods of time,usually 5 hours during the day.
we homed an older puppy (10months) recue lurcher that took to being crate trained from the first second and has never made any mess anywhere.

don't forget that most dogs also go between 5 and 8 hours every night from being pups, without being walked or toileted,'cos the owners in bed asleep.there's no reason why the behaviour should be different just 'cos the suns shining outside.

[katkin]

Originally Posted by Moonbird

a puppy is only a baby and needs several meals a day, how can you do this if your at work? i know how much you want a puppy and how much you will love it and do your best for it, and i don't like to put a downer on it for you....but i do hope that you will think again, it can't be kind to leave the puppy in its own mess, cold, hungry and lonely all day every day can it?
:

Hi Claire- when we decided to get Ailsa as a pup, we realised beforehand that we would have to make some changes, since for one she was still on 4 meals per day and we could not expect her to go without food whilst we were at work full time - nor could she be expected to hold her bladder for that long, so we agreed that we would come home every lunchtime, even if it was only for 20 minutes or so.

We also used crate training to speed up her housetraining - she doesnt use a crate now, she is perfectly happy without it and we have neighbours either side who have assured us she never cries - this is probably because she lives with several cats and we always leave the radio on so she never feels completely alone- plus she knows when we will be home as we stick to a fairly regular weekday routine. Oh and in those early stages if she cried at night to go out for a wee/ poo, one of us got up to take her out - some people say you should ignore crying at might but if I was bursting for the loo I'd want to go out so why treat a dog any differently? Other than occasional cries, she settled pretty quickly and has never been much trouble- never chewed or destroyed (except for a brief period when she was fed IAMS and went hyper) and has always been fantastic with our cats. For all the doubts we initially had about getting a pup, for all the sleepless nights (it;s a lot like getting a new baby), I would not change a moment.

On the rare occasions we cannot get home, we have an arrangement with a neighbour who calls in and texts me to let me know everything is OK- to reciprocate, I cat sit for her when she has to work away from home and ultimately, Ailsa is never left alone for more than 4 hours.

I know people who say there dog can go for 8 hrs of more without the need to toilet but it can be an incredibly lonely time for a puppy on it's own - and could result in seperation anxiety or destructive tendencies (I'm saying could- you never really know what you'll have to contend with until you've got your pup - you might be one of the lucky ones and have a pup that is content to be alone all day).

If at all possible, could you consider coming home briefly to check on your new pup, or arranging for a friendly neighbour or pet-sitting service to call by? I appreciate this might not be feasible but if youre anything like I was when we decided to get a pup, you will want to explore all the options beforehand. Whatever you decide, I hope you find the dog for you.

Oh- Ailsa is nearly 6 now and we still come home every lunchtime - because we choose to, because we would rather not leave her for 8+ hours, although we could probably have weaned her off it, but she's an important part of our 'family' so we come home all the same.

[Ally_Fraser]

Raised properly you shouldnt have a problem, but remember that boxers are big strong excitable dogs, and at a couple of months he'll be able to reach almost everywhere in your house and will no doubt want to taste every part of it!!

Remember about crates, that dogs love them. They don't see it as imprisonment in the same way we do, so don't feel guilty about locking him up, he'll happily kip for hours in there once he's used to it.

[Moonbird]

Originally Posted by Ally_Fraser

Raised properly you shouldnt have a problem

But how is she going to "raise it properly" if she cannot be there to do so?

Originally Posted by Ally_Fraser

Remember about crates, that dogs love them. They don't see it as imprisonment in the same way we do, so don't feel guilty about locking him up, he'll happily kip for hours in there once he's used to it.

It would be cruel to crate a puppy for 8 hours, by the time the owner came back the poor thing would have laid in its own mess for hours on end, though they are a great tool for housetraining and for destructive dogs, crates are not intended to be used for such long periods of time, especialy in the day when a dog is naturaly more active.

[LaceyHiggs]

Originally Posted by Moonbird

It would be cruel to crate a puppy for 8 hours, by the time the owner came back the poor thing would have laid in its own mess for hours on end, though they are a great tool for housetraining and for destructive dogs, crates are not intended to be used for such long periods of time, especialy in the day when a dog is naturaly more active.

agree totally, dont want to sound off putting but if the dog is meant to be quiet and sleeping at night (while your resting) and also quiet in a crate during the day, with the prosumption your working the average 9-5 getting home between 5;30 and 6 then going to bed at 10 that just leves only 4-5 hours of socialisation a day????
correct me if im wrong.

[Ally_Fraser]

Originally Posted by Moonbird

But how is she going to "raise it properly" if she cannot be there to do so?



It would be cruel to crate a puppy for 8 hours, by the time the owner came back the poor thing would have laid in its own mess for hours on end, though they are a great tool for housetraining and for destructive dogs, crates are not intended to be used for such long periods of time, especialy in the day when a dog is naturaly more active.

I never said it wouldnt be cruel. However, The lass is going to arrange for someone to come and see the pup during the day, So it won't be left for 8 hours at a time.

At the end of the day, I've always recommended crate training, for transportation, training, and just the nice private bed that all dogs need. Most people think of them as either too cruel to use, or even worse, as a punishment for being destructive - that only ends in tears.

A dog wont go to the toilet where it sleeps, so there's no danger of it wallowing in its own filth provided it is let out to stretch its legs a couple of times a day, as Claire says she will arrange.

[gempud]

We were lucky when we got Lilly as although she prefers to be with us she is quite happy to sleep all day whilst we are out at work and occupies herself. She also holds her bladder for amazing lengths of time.....I've known her to go for 12 + hours without weeing even when she's been given every opportunity to go. She suits our life and we suit hers. However, she was 4 when we got her and obviously not a puppy. I'm all for people who work full time having pets (we work full time and have a kitten, a cat and a dog), but I would really really think again about having a puppy. I will reiterate what other people have said about Separation Anxiety and toileting and boredom. Personally I would look for a dog about a year old from a Rescue Centre so they can at least have an idea of the dogs personality and whether it is likely to cope with being left alone a lot of the time.