[slimsid2000]

Yes he did show a fine degree of statesmanship during his presedency in trying to heal his divided country and an honourable degree of forgivness, but on the other hand he was a terrorist in his younger days and he also left many problems in South Africa that were not necessarily there before such as a very high murder rate.

I would say at best that his was a mixed record.

[Snook]

He is probably a bit over-rated, as you say, but he did a lot of good, which probably outweighs the misguided things that he did in his younger days. He is probably still a great man who will be remembered for the changes he made to the world.

It is very hard to accept violence as a way to bring about change, but sometimes people feel it is the only way, like when we faught in the second world war.

[BasilRathbon]

I like the song he did with the Specials back in the 1980s, and I seem to recall he also did a neat line in free T Shirts.

[slimsid2000]

Originally Posted by Snook

It is very hard to accept violence as a way to bring about change, but sometimes people feel it is the only way, like when we faught in the second world war.

Hardly comparing like with like.

Like I said credit where it is due but really the best that can be said of him is he was better than most black African leaders but then that is hardly difficult considering their pretty bad records.

[gabby]

Free Nelson Mandela - when you buy two.

[zweena]

Having lived under apartheid, I think the man is incredible. The whole point of the ANC was initially peaceful protest - as kids (white kids at that), even we were petrified of the white police, their dogs and AK47's. It didn't take long for the police to show their strength at peaceful protests.

Anyone who knows of the Sharpeville massacre and the displacement of thousands of innocent people will hold a man who bought peace in high respect.

However, let's wait and see what happens when he's gone...

[fox20thc]

And just to illustrate the point:


"The protest organized by the PAC on March 21, a group of between 5,000 and 7,000 people converged on the local police station, offering themselves up for arrest for not carrying their pass books.

According to the Times newspaper, there was random shooting in the morning of the day on which the massacre happened, and this later prompted crowds to stone the police vehicles, at which point the police fired on them.

Sixty-nine people were killed including 8 women and 10 children, and over 180 injured, including 31 women and 19 children. It is debated whether or not the police attack was provoked. Many of those killed and injured were women and children;

The statements of Lieutenant Colonel Pienaar show that the mere gathering of blacks was taken as a provocation:

"The Native mentality does not allow them to gather for a peaceful demonstration. For them to gather means violence."



This led to the banning of PAC and the ANC. The police were indeed brutal Zweena.

[zweena]

Originally Posted by fox20thc

This led to the banning of PAC and the ANC. The police were indeed brutal Zweena.

Yep, horrific. At the time I was too young to understand it all (although I do remember starting to question it), but I remember it all too well. Unfortunately, this mentality still exists in a large proportion of the white population, even among my own relatives. The stupidity is often quite awesome/cringeworthy.

[miniminch]

Originally Posted by slimsid2000

Yes he did show a fine degree of statesmanship during his presedency in trying to heal his divided country and an honourable degree of forgivness, but on the other hand he was a terrorist in his younger days and he also left many problems in South Africa that were not necessarily there before such as a very high murder rate.

I would say at best that his was a mixed record.

ooo racist

[slimsid2000]

Originally Posted by miniminch

ooo racist

What exactly is racist in what i said?

[miniminch]

Originally Posted by slimsid2000

What exactly is racist in what i said?

it's a line from 'the office' when he introduces his dog nelson to his colleagues. 'great man, great dog.'

[Snook]

Originally Posted by slimsid2000

Hardly comparing like with like.

Like I said credit where it is due but really the best that can be said of him is he was better than most black African leaders but then that is hardly difficult considering their pretty bad records.

Why is it not a good comparison? A group of individuals standing up against a cruel and unjust regime led by fascists, with the support of most of the rest of the world.