[SATURNINE]

Myself and a few friends of mine were in the pub last night and we were dicussing politics.The usual,environment,healthcare etc.
we eventually got on the topic of Immigration and Britishness.
The thing is we British take enormous pride in our nationality,but here's the big question;Have any of us EARNED the right.
Our discussion lead to the conclusion that the people who have really EARNED the right to be proud are the people who FOUGHT for this country and ,to a certain extent,asylum seekers who risk their lives to come here.There are other people too who do good which are too numerous to mention.
But the rest of us (well most of) carry on with our lives(I'm one of them)like we really haven't a care for the "country" at all.We only care about ourselves.Some of us will do our bit i.e. fly the flag during the world cup,wear an england shirt on holiday,slag off the immigrant,come out with phrases like "bring back hanging".......see where I'm going?
So REALLY not many of us can put our hand up and say I'm british and proud.
Also not mentioning the fact that our race was just handed to us LIKE IT OR NOT.

[artisan]

Originally Posted by SATURNINE

Myself and a few friends of mine were in the pub last night and we were dicussing politics.The usual,environment,healthcare etc.
we eventually got on the topic of Immigration and Britishness.
The thing is we British take enormous pride in our nationality,but here's the big question;Have any of us EARNED the right.
Our discussion lead to the conclusion that the people who have really EARNED the right to be proud are the people who FOUGHT for this country and ,to a certain extent,asylum seekers who risk their lives to come here.There are other people too who do good which are too numerous to mention.
But the rest of us (well most of) carry on with our lives(I'm one of them)like we really haven't a care for the "country" at all.We only care about ourselves.Some of us will do our bit i.e. fly the flag during the world cup,wear an england shirt on holiday,slag off the immigrant,come out with phrases like "bring back hanging".......see where I'm going?
So REALLY not many of us can put our hand up and say I'm british and proud.
Also not mentioning the fact that our race was just handed to us LIKE IT OR NOT.

You dont need to earn it, that is for lesser mortals.
Before you were born, you had won the lottery of life.
You were English.
This means you have the best of health care, help if you are down on your luck, respect from every nation on the planet, and the freedom to go where you please, when you please.
And above all the right to call yourself a natural born Englishman
People pay fortunes and risk their lives for that honour.

[pk014b7161]

im not british im english

[pk014b7161]

no bites time to reel in

[schizodoor]

I prefer to consider myself a Yorkshire English woman, rather than a britsh citizen, I think I've earned the right to call myself that because of my family history and the fact that I'm born and bred here.

I don't want to be aligned with militant right wingers because of this. Its where my heart is and where I feel at home, amongst the countryside and the 'say what I like and like what I say' culture.

I think the 'handed it on a plate' statement is far off the point of national pride, by definition being british only means being born here anyway!

Just 'cos I'm proud to be English doesn't mean I want kick out anybody who wasn't born here,on the contrary, I want to share our wonderful attitude and free thinking with the poor souls who weren't born with the title

[schizodoor]

Originally Posted by pk014b7161

no bites time to reel in

LMAO you're hillarious!!

[Mr Goose]

How far to you go back?

I look like I'm 4th-5th generation Spanish - Italian, with some Norse in there somewhere.

Do I count as English?

I didn't like sunday roast or Thatcher and I hate golf - do these affect the "test of Brittishness" ?

[pk014b7161]

Originally Posted by Mr Goose

How far to you go back?

I look like I'm 4th-5th generation Spanish - Italian, with some Norse in there somewhere.

Do I count as English?

I didn't like sunday roast or Thatcher and I hate golf - do these affect the "test of Brittishness" ?

no geese dont count

[schizodoor]

Originally Posted by Mr Goose

How far to you go back?

I look like I'm 4th-5th generation Spanish - Italian, with some Norse in there somewhere.

Do I count as English?

I didn't like sunday roast or Thatcher and I hate golf - do these affect the "test of Brittishness" ?

I hate golf (its scottish anyway!) and thatcher. Do like my yorkshire puds, hendersons and sunday dinner. There's some irish in my family history somewhere way back. If you were born here, you're English, simple as...

[angle20]

Originally Posted by Mr Goose

Do I count as English?

Check it out for yourself:

The English of England are all those persons resident in England who actually or by belief are the descendants of the peoples who first created themselves as the English, those peoples being the pre-1066 population of the geographical area known as England, together with all other persons who have over the centuries since 1066 whether by integration or by merger or by amalgamation or by adoption or similar become part of said descendants such that they are not recognised by themselves or by the said descendants or by the Laws of England or by any part or emanation of the UK State as being members of a group distinct or distinguishable or discernible or separate in any manner whatsoever from the said descendants.

[LibertyBell]

Isn't pride one of the seven deadly sins?

[Kamble]

I happen to have been born one one bit of rock sticking out of the water, some other people happen to have been born on other bits of rock sticking out of the water. We're all people, the same as each other. This whole 'countries' thing has gone too far I reckon.

[schizodoor]

Originally Posted by Kamble

I happen to have been born one one bit of rock sticking out of the water, some other people happen to have been born on other bits of rock sticking out of the water. We're all people, the same as each other. This whole 'countries' thing has gone too far I reckon.

It would be a boringly bland world if we were all the same don't you think?

I agree we're all human with the same rights, but I really doubt we all have the same beliefs and traditions.

[artisan]

Originally Posted by Kamble

I happen to have been born one one bit of rock sticking out of the water, some other people happen to have been born on other bits of rock sticking out of the water. We're all people, the same as each other. This whole 'countries' thing has gone too far I reckon.

Yes just think, you could have been lucky enough to have been born into a poverty striken family in Chad, or Sierra Leonne, or somewhere.

Instead you have the misfortune to have been born in one of the richest countries on Earth.
It must be hard for you.

If people dont like it here, then upsticks and go elswhere.

It is your right as an Englishman to go wherever you wish.
You can also renounce your nationality, and live on docksides or airport lounges for ever.

[Kamble]

Calm down. The point I'm sort of getting at is that I feel this whole 'my country's better than yours' attitude is an unhealthy one, which leads to conflict, which leads to countries becoming war-torn and poverty stricken.
There are good and bad things and good and bad people everywhere in the world, I think it would be a desirable state of affairs to one day embrace the concept of world citizenship, all this infighting is just a bigger version of scrapping with the kids from the school down the road, I reckon a lot of people need to grow up.
England is relatively rich, but some of the things that have contributed to its wealth in the past have been a bit nasty to say the least, resulting in some other counties becoming very poor, again leading to all sorts of problems.
And come on man this 'if you don't like it here why don't you go and live in Sierra Leone' bit is a bit weak don't you think? we can at least talk about things like adults can't we?

[artisan]

Originally Posted by Kamble

Calm down. The point I'm sort of getting at is that I feel this whole 'my country's better than yours' attitude is an unhealthy one, which leads to conflict, which leads to countries becoming war-torn and poverty stricken.
There are good and bad things and good and bad people everywhere in the world, I think it would be a desirable state of affairs to one day embrace the concept of world citizenship, all this infighting is just a bigger version of scrapping with the kids from the school down the road, I reckon a lot of people need to grow up.
England is relatively rich, but some of the things that have contributed to its wealth in the past have been a bit nasty to say the least, resulting in some other counties becoming very poor, again leading to all sorts of problems.
And come on man this 'if you don't like it here why don't you go and live in Sierra Leone' bit is a bit weak don't you think? we can at least talk about things like adults can't we?

I completely agree with your view on International Socialism, the trouble is in getting everyone else to agree.
The poorest people, who have most to gain, are gradually being indoctrinated by a religion whose one aim is to keep them in poverty.
And the ruling 1% have all the rest so mesmerised by promises of jam tommorrow that they dont what to do.

BTW, I did not say to you to go and live in Sierra Leone, I said think yourself lucky you were not born there.

Please dont join that select group on here who misquote people.

[plekhanov]

Originally Posted by angle20

Check it out for yourself:

What text are you quoting there?

[Kamble]

Artisan-
Yeah sorry man I did misquote you. I mixed together the
<Yes just think, you could have been lucky enough to have been born into a poverty striken family in Chad, or Sierra Leonne, or somewhere.>
and the
<If people dont like it here, then upsticks and go elswhere>
bits.
As you say there, the trouble with ideas like these is getting everyone else to agree, this is very true, it's so frustrating to try and talk about this sort of thing and be shouted down by the 'It's never gonna happen, you're talking about some hippy utopia, living in a dream world etc etc ' kind of thing.
My own feeling is that it is possible to sort things out, i.e. live in peace, provide for all people, etc. and although it will take a hell of a lot of doing, it's worth it - at least worth trying.
That's why I don't go for this 'being proud of your country' bit, to my mind it makes no sense, there are things that people from England have done, either collectively or individually, that are great, there are also things they've done that are terrible, and the same can be said for any country in the world.

[Jonny5]

In reply to the OP; I have found that the more likely an establishment is to make a bit deal of being English, the more it represents what is bad about England.

I live near Woodseats. You can draw your own conclusions about the establishments that I'm talking about!

[Kamble]

Yeah Jonny I've found this to be the case myself. Whenever I've come across someone coming out with all the 'proud of being English' bit, usually accompanied by the 'you're not allowed to be proud of your country unless you're a foreigner' line, they are usually the kind of person that makes you a bit embarrased to be English.
I'm quite aware there may well be lots of people who are proud to be English and not like this, I'm just talking about my own personal experience.