[disillusioned]

Surely there has to be an alternative to the political parties we have in place at the moment. My first rant is at Labour. They have made a total cobblers over the issue of Asylum. If I was in fear of my life, and had to leave the country of my birth, I would head to the first available refuge- unfortunately Britain is seen as a soft touch- which is exactly what we have become. Ex Taliban fighters, Yardies and Albanians- the latter are fighting for control of the streets to control drug and vice monopolies, and we have no responce. The PC minority who are the most vocal have control of this nation, even the Police are scared to do their jobs in case of being labelled racist! This is totally wrong, these so called do gooders are creating racism where it does not exist. I agree that racism is a problem in this country, but you get it on both sides of the fence. I would even go so far as to say the Asians are more racist than we are. A collegue of mine who is Asian, told me that if his family had caught his sister talking to the likes of me (white male) she would have been disowned and sent packing. Is this not racist? I am not saying for a moment there isn't racism on the part of Whites, just that it cuts both ways.

My other problem is Europe. I may be short sighted but why we want to integrate ourselves into a unelected beaurocratic money swallowing community is beyond me. The recent developments through the forthoming war on Iraq, the Mugabe issue proves that France, Germany et al are in it purely for them, not for any economic good. France only obeys EU directives when it suits them. The principle aim of the European superstate is to split Europe into small pricipalities or regions. Funny, but that is what Hitler wanted to do, there has never been a vote about entry into Europe apart from the entry into the common market- is it what the nation wants or just another way for Polititians to line their already bulging pockets. I regard it as a betrayal to our ancestors that we could even consider giving up our soveriegnity.

The state of our city should be enough to persuade people about Labours ability to govern. Fiascos like the Supertram which killed hundreds of businesses, The student games which we are still paying for- the state of housing- yearly increases in Council Tax for which we get what? Second rate services and an increase in Asylum seekers.

The trouble is we haven't anyone in oppositition who is worth voting for. The Tories are a non starter, does anyone know what the Liberals manifesto is? The problem which is around the corner is the likes of the BNP or NF showing up and lets be truthfull, they would get votes.

Personally, I would vote for the candidate or party which offered rights first for UK citizens, all immigrants to talk an oath of allegiance, stricter border policy meaning only those who could prove they were genuine asylum seekers or those with key skills were allowed to claim residency. The revocation of the absurd Human Rights Bill which is just a get out clause for law breakers and the proverbial gravy train for lawyers. Proper sentancing and elected judges in the Penal system. A referendum over whether we should be more tied into Europe, more money poured into vital public services such as the NHS and transport with the balance coming from what we pay into Europe. Most importantly, take the lead of the likes of France and take care of our own interests first without feeling the need to cosy up to other countries. And furthermore, a party which creates a Great Britian where it is not a crime to be patriotic anymore!!!!!

I agree with much of what you say about what is happening in our Country. Everything is falling apart and the Government has lost control of crime and drugs, violence and the health service is a public disgrace.
There may be very little to choose from within the established political parties but why don't you do as I did and stand as an Independent candidate?

[disillusioned]

Much as I would love to stand as a an independant candidate, the problem I have would be one of financing such a move. Indeed, I do have strong political beliefs, but my heart says I would be wasting my time.

I only hope that at some point, the apathetic nature of the majority is pushed too far by the state of the country that I love. The thing I fear most is pondlife such as the BNP or other outwardly racist parties gaining control. The problem is the alternative is the other end of the spectrum, such as New Labour and their pandering to minoritys and Politically correct do gooders. A balance between the two has to be reached, a balance where all people are treated equally, irrespective of colour, beliefs, etc. Where freedom of speech for all is accepted (note anyone speaking out against the Islamic extremists is immediately denounced as a Racist, yet hate peddlars such as Abu Hamza are allowed to launch their tirade of venom practically at will- no hint of Racism there is there?), and the rights of all the British people are put before the rights and wishes of other nations.

The current situation truly sickens me, the way our elderley are denied a comfortable retirement, even to the extent where they are struck off doctors waiting lists to make way for immigrants. The current system is corrupt, serving only those who wish to see the name of Great Britain expunged from the global map and replaced by a nation of yes men to a European superstate.

[Michael_W]

I very much think like you disillusioned, and so do many others. The people of this country are generally very tolerant, maybe thats the problem. The majority of people in this country don't vote, that is because the major political parties in the UK basically have the same agenda and that is to create taxes to pay for the problems.
We the "Taxpayers" and the "Majority" pay for everything and get nothing !

[Sidla]

Another problem with this country - The police are a joke.

My brother was arrested in July last year while walking home at 2:50 in the morning through Market Bosworth in Leicestershire after a night out in Leicester. A policeman who was dressed in plain clothes pulled up in his car and confronted him agressively. My brother didn't believe he was a policeman and thought he was being mugged. He kicked the policeman and tried to run away, but the policeman ran after him and wrestled him to the ground. Eventually a marked police car turned up and took him to the police station where he was charged with Common Assault and Resisting Arrest.

It went to court yesterday and the Police made up a load of complete bullsh*t about my brother being on drugs when the incident occured. They had absolutely no evidence to back it up, they found no drugs on him and they never questioned him about drugs at the time of the incident. (Anyone who knows my brother would know he'd never touch drugs anyway). The policeman who stopped my brother claimed he'd properly introduced himself by saying 'Hi, my name's Sergant Lambert from Market Bosworth police station' and showed him a police ID. This was a load of b****cks because he was completely confrontational from the start. So basically he lied under oath. What made it worse was all the other policemen who were questioned in court all had virtually identical stories.

Fortunately the majestrates saw through the police's lies and found my brother not guilty, but it makes you wonder how many inocent people go down because the police have given false evidence in court.

We did make the front page of the Leicester Mercury though.

[Sidla]

BTW, if anyone wants to know about the afore mentioned trial the the Hinckly Times has the write-up here.

[halevan]

Disilusioned,
I agree with everything you say,why don't you stand for election? I and I suspect a lot more people would, you speak common sense a voice in the wilderness if there were more of people like you and I, this country wouldn't be in this state. Sadly, it is not possible for me to stand for election as I am too old. The fool's that are ruling us at the moment(and I have been a labour supporter all my seventy five year's) are letting these muslim's dictate and domineer us. Let us rise up and change these daft law's, stop giving our wealth away to these ungratefull traitor's and once again be proud to be British,( I don't mean the B.N.P. another name for the hitler youth movement) We are being pushed out of our own country dictated to by these idiot's in brussels, let's get back to how we were before the do-gooder's took over.Keep the pound sterling,control our own legislation,
look for market's elsewhere in the world and control our own destiny instead of being pushed where we don't want to go.Hal. Evans.

[disillusioned]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, as I stated above, I would be only too happy to stand as an independant candidate, however the problem in the first instance is finance. And that about concludes my problem with it!

It is truly a shame that this country is selling itself short to Europe at the cost of jobs and traditional industries which communities depend on are disappearing at an alarming rate. Unfortunatley at the moment there doesn't seem to be any dissenting voices against giving our soveriegnety away in Parliament, the only onces are a few journalists who are described as Xenophobics, Little Englanders, and other derogatory terms. Also, it is interesting to note, that Xenophobia will soon be a crime. Is this a ploy to silence those who oppose an integrated Europe? I honestly think there is freedom of speech, but only if you say what the ruling classes want to hear!

[richard]

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

Surely there has to be an alternative to the political parties we have in place at the moment. My first rant is at Labour. They have made a total cobblers over the issue of Asylum. If I was in fear of my life, and had to leave the country of my birth, I would head to the first available refuge- unfortunately Britain is seen as a soft touch- which is exactly what we have become.

Would you really. Say you had family somewhere, wouldn't you want to go to that country? Say you knew French, wouldn't you go to France? I dont wuite agree were a soft touch, were just incompetant at handling assylum seekers. We don't send back even those which have been refused assylum. This may seem like the same thing. But stopping the incompetance is the first thing to do.

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

Ex Taliban fighters, Yardies and Albanians- the latter are fighting for control of the streets to control drug and vice monopolies, and we have no responce.

We have a whole load of laws against drugs and guns and intimidation and the like. Any failing to control this lies with the police.

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

The PC minority who are the most vocal have control of this nation, even the Police are scared to do their jobs in case of being labelled racist! This is totally wrong, these so called do gooders are creating racism where it does not exist. I agree that racism is a problem in this country, but you get it on both sides of the fence. I would even go so far as to say the Asians are more racist than we are.

I think its dangerous to say "the Asians are more racist than we are" because sweeping generalisations are always wrongm and if believed always lead to dehumanisation of groups of people. Its what Hitler did to the jews. I am unsure as to how the PC minority have created racism where it doesn't exist, can you elaborate?

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

A collegue of mine who is Asian, told me that if his family had caught his sister talking to the likes of me (white male) she would have been disowned and sent packing. Is this not racist? I am not saying for a moment there isn't racism on the part of Whites, just that it cuts both ways.

Indeed it does. But if you have been verbally abused by one or two of the homeless people on the streets every now and then, you too start to tarnish all homeless people with the same brush. Racism is a curious thing. All our lives we learn by experience and then generalise in order to predict. For instance once you've learned to open a bottle of pop you probably know how to open a jam jar. Its natural for someone who only sees children on the streets drinking to assume all children drink and the youth of today are in a shoking state. Put the same person in a family environment then they will get another view. Racism is only dangerous when it affects people, when you cant judge people on their character and you should be. When I was a tall 19 year old male I used get many suspicious looks from the elderly who were afraid I would mug them or something, the effect was very pronounced in the aftermath of a sick killing of a pensioner for £20 in my home town. Now that didn't really affect me, since I'm nice guy the elderly people who passed me, and hopefully many like me would have their faith in people my age restored somewhat. But had I been trying to get a job off of one of these people then any prejedices they had would be important. If important people such as Magistrates, judges, and employers, recognise they have prejeudices, as we all have, and then make allowances, using facts about the individual to make their decisions then we'll probably be as well off as we can be.

My girlfriend passed a story on to me from her mother's policeman partner. He tells a tale where there are two council estates in Oldham one which is predominately asian, the other is predominantly white. This Asian area has decent honest people who look after their gardens and keep their streets clean. The white area is a drug den rife with burglary and drugs. Because of this the white area looks like a ****hole and the Asian area looks livable, but the whites assume that the asians are being given more, thus increasing the racial tension in the area. This is what leads to fights between the white area and a 3rd asain area. A lot of it is to do with drugs as well.

What I've tried to show above is that racism is a subset of prejeudice and this is always affected by other factors.

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

My other problem is Europe. I may be short sighted but why we want to integrate ourselves into a unelected beaurocratic money swallowing community is beyond me. The recent developments through the forthoming war on Iraq, the Mugabe issue proves that France, Germany et al are in it purely for them, not for any economic good. France only obeys EU directives when it suits them. The principle aim of the European superstate is to split Europe into small pricipalities or regions. Funny, but that is what Hitler wanted to do, there has never been a vote about entry into Europe apart from the entry into the common market- is it what the nation wants or just another way for Polititians to line their already bulging pockets. I regard it as a betrayal to our ancestors that we could even consider giving up our soveriegnity.

If we join then I agree it should be via a vote. I think that if we do, then we will have the same power to sway things as Germany and France, if not more so from our economic advantage. On the issue of outside control I would point out that we are reliant upon foriegn trade and as such we already have decisions of other countries directly affecting us a hell of a lot. The American Steel tarrifs as a case in point. But more generally if we anger the world then we will suffer financially. Therefore the power's we would be losing are in effect already lost to some degree, We live in a world where businesses are put before individuals in the belief that whats good for Uk plc is good for the Uk population. I don't care about the pound. It is merely a means to an end. If it is better for Uk plc to use Euro's then we should.

I have no problem giving up the monarchy, I think despite all the money they have taken from us (Queen Victoria came to throne with an overall debt) they do have hard lives and we are cruel to them to make them live that way. Whats important to me is proper representation thats what I fear about entry into Europe but I'm not too worried as I believe our politicians are power mad and unlikely to just give it away.

I dont't believe it is a betrayal to our ancestors becuase they fought and died for us to have the right to decide. Besides which we should all be cleverer than our ancestors because if not; where is evolution taking us?

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

The state of our city should be enough to persuade people about Labours ability to govern. Fiascos like the Supertram which killed hundreds of businesses, The student games which we are still paying for- the state of housing- yearly increases in Council Tax for which we get what? Second rate services and an increase in Asylum seekers.

I don't know how the tram did this or about the student games, could someone tell me more?

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

The trouble is we haven't anyone in oppositition who is worth voting for. The Tories are a non starter, does anyone know what the Liberals manifesto is? The problem which is around the corner is the likes of the BNP or NF showing up and lets be truthfull, they would get votes.

Liberal policy is decided at anual meetings where the representitives vote on each issue, what is democratically decided is then policy. This leads to situations where Charles Kennedy sometimes has to say "the Liberal Democrats believe ..." rather than "I believe ..." The liberal democrats, unlike Labour and the Tories tend not to take the view that what is good for Uk plc is neccessaruly good for the Uk population. They are in favour of higher taxation and doing this via Income tax, which is proportional to your earnings, rather than stealth taxes which hit the poorest the hardest. They are generally pro-european, anti-war, types. They tend to attract people who want to make the world a better place rather than the power hungry, because the liberal democrats have ever been in power.

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

Personally, I would vote for the candidate or party which offered rights first for UK citizens,

Like housing and stuff like that?

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

all immigrants to talk an oath of allegiance, stricter border policy meaning only those who could prove they were genuine asylum seekers or those with key skills were allowed to claim residency.

Well they are asked to prove that they are genuine, the problem is when they can't they aren't sent back. Right now key skills aren't even on the agenda, assylum only. You would be opening the doors a little wider in a very sensible way.

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

The revocation of the absurd Human Rights Bill which is just a get out clause for law breakers and the proverbial gravy train for lawyers.

I an in favour of the Bill. I think that this law is a no-brainer. Article three is the usual suspect when it comes to assylum. "No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment." I couldn't sleep at night if I tried to get rid of that law.

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

Proper sentancing and elected judges in the Penal system.

I agree in principle but dont believe it would work unless we got the apathy in the general elections sorted first.

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

A referendum over whether we should be more tied into Europe, more money poured into vital public services such as the NHS and transport with the balance coming from what we pay into Europe.

I dont know if you realise this but billions are coming into Sheffield thanks to Europe. I think the problem with the NHS is that the drugs are too expensive. I would create a research facility of the calibar of GSK of Pfizer and let the NHS get the drugs developed at production cost price. So much of our money is falling into the hands of shareholders.

Originally posted by "dissilusioned"

Most importantly, take the lead of the likes of France and take care of our own interests first without feeling the need to cosy up to other countries. And furthermore, a party which creates a Great Britian where it is not a crime to be patriotic anymore!!!!!

As if it were that simple. Whats good for you for your holidays (i.e. a stong pound) is hell for manufacturers. These conlicts appear all the time. Nothing is simple any more. We cosy up to other countries so we can either sell them our stuff, or buy their stuff as cheaply as possible. Can't you see the harm in ot being cosy?

[disillusioned]

Thank you, there were some very reasoned and well thought out arguements in your reply Richard. However, I didn't want to come across as stating all asians are more racist than whites, I was trying to put my point across that you find prejudice on both sides.
As for Europe, I still feel that our best interests lie in taking control of our own legislation. The European Union is a beauracratic monolith which is slowly chokeing the life out of several of our industries, like fishing etc. while providing a gravy train for the unelected commisioners (or should that be Commisars?). I agree that yes, Sheffield has recieved money from Europe, but face it, the country puts in far more than it takes out.
As for the PC minority, and my statement that they create racism where it doesn't exist. Thje way I see it, is that the PC brigade are segregating people themselves. The recent fuss over stop and search, the campaining for rights for minorities (why not campaign for rights for the elderley, disabled or those in true hardship too), while ignoring the rights of others is discrimination like it or not. Also by denying our heritage, calling for the removal of the Union Jack in public places and generally labelling anyone who dares suggest celebrating St Georges day a racist, creates racism where it is not there. Also the lunatic that tried to ban Christmas in Red Cross shops for fear of offending minorities shows Political Correctness has gone to far.

As for the disgrace of Labour management of Sheffield. The Supertram killed hundreds of small businesses off in the Hillsborough area, and I believe that it still is. Ok, it may run to Hillsborough but I am still of the opinion it is a white elephant. The student games was a disaster from start to finish, the fact we are paying higher council tax is due to the fact that the city went into massive debt over it.

As for the NHS, poor management both by polititians and administrators are what is killing this. Scarcely a day goes by without reading about a lack of beds, underfunding etc. I don't have all the answers for this, but i do know I would cut down on management and make that funding available for care.

And now to Asylum. I truly believe we should help those less fortunate than ourselves, and yes, if I was in that situation and I had family in another country then that is the country I would head for. But how many have got family in this country I wonder? The recent articles about a hostel being created for 400 single men begs the question, why would they need hostels if they had family? Until I see undisputable proof that we are not the soft man of Europe then I stand by my comments. That is not to say I disagree with welcoming those in need or those who can bring skills to our country, but i think we should have much tighter border controls and people wishing to apply for asylum should be subjected to stringent checks before allowing them in, if that means detaining them while their applications are processed then so be it.

I also agree with you about what you said about the areas. I know a lot of Asians and they are all good people. And it may surprise you that many in the Asian community agree with what I have to say. Also, my statement about rights first for UK citizens is not aimed purely as the white section of the community, but for all races who live in this country and hold British Nationality. My point is more the right to govern ourselves and the right to pass our own laws, not the issue over housing etc.

Apathy in the electorate is due solely to the terrible mis management of this country. A lot of people have problems with the current setup, which I covered in my first post. The police unfortunatly seem to be led by donkeys who would rather catch people in cars than investigate crimes against property or person. Also, the PC brigade are responsible for the criminal to have far more rights than the victim. Wrong.

My post was intended to show the perspective from the other side, the one that generally gets overlooked by the media etc. The country is on its back at the moment. Poor leadership and deep division. But unfortunatly there is no alternative to the current scenario, so things must change before it is too late and we pass the point of no return and anarchy.

Vote labour! ops:

[Voiceofreason]

Dear Disillusioned

I understand what you are saying regarding asylum seekers and for the most part I agree. There is a small part of me however, that disagrees and I will come to that later. I would like to say from the start that I detest racism and do not see a person's skin colour as anything other than a pigmentation that has evolved over thousands of years according to a person's surroundings.

When I first graduated many moons ago, I went to work in London and ended up working in the audit office of Haringey Council. Anyone who knows Haringey will know that political correctness was born in this borough and has, in my opinion, gone to extremes. This was the council that banned 'baa baa black sheep' and 'black' bin liners (in favour of green ones) because it was deemed politically incorrect. My first day in the office I asked for a black coffee and was given daggered looks and a response of," Don't you mean coffee without milk". In my opinion this is extreme, I do not feel offended when people ask for white coffee etc, to me it is merely the terminology relating to a food stuff/ or drink and bares no resemblance to a racist remark.

Whilst working at Haringey, I encountered some ridiculous scenarios and the scams that go on in the borough are ridiculous. One day whilst standing outside the front doors a gentleman pulled up in a mercedes, parked it in the bus stop, got out in his long leather cost and very expensive jewellery, proceeded to go up to the second floor to claim income support and milk tokens, wandered back down again and then had the audacity to eye me up and down, wave the money in my face and say, 'you have a wonderful country here man'. Obviously referring to the fact that he was claiming money etc. and at the same time driving around in an E-class mercedes. My friend reported him and NOTHING was done. Insufficient evidence or something?

I have to say that at Haringey that is far from an isolated incident and this particular council is notorious for asylum seekers, genuine and fraudulent. I do not agree with govt figures either of 100,000 every year. When I worked there Haringey alone (according to someone who worked in the benefits office) had 100,000 new arrivals every year.

In my opinion, Great Britain should have a way of hosting GENUINE asylum seekers. We will never understand hte brutality some of thesse people have endured. Teenagers watching their parents being murdered and then being gang raped, fleeing for their lives with no money or means of support. As one of the richest countries in the world, I believe we have a moral obligation to help the GENUINE ones, but we need a system which can identify them. At the moment we are most definitely a dumping ground for every Tom Dick and Harry.

People are coming in via other countries, via Germany and Holland. For example someone orginating from Croatia could have fled their country during the atrocities, gone to live in Germany for two years and then found that they can claim more money in the UK and come here under the pretence that they arrived straight from their country of origin. Two facts are highlighted here. The first glaringly obvious one being that we should reduce the benefits they can receive to zero, as in other countries otherwise this will not stop. Secondly, why are those who have sought asylum from warring countries like Croatia, allowed to stay. The country is no longer at war, in fact they are building a very nice little tourist industry and it is tipped as the next Italy, with it's beautiful coastlines etc. Why shouldn't they be sent back? I don't understand. If the UK was invaded tomorrow by Iraqi armies, I would most probably flee to another country but as soon as the way became clear again I would return I love this country.

Immigration is a totally separate issue and since time began with the first human on this planet we have always travelled in search of food and better living. We ALL stem from the same genepool in the Congo, that is a scientific fact and our journeys led us to settle all over the world. I have no problem with this. I have lived in Italy, Austria and Cyprus and would love to live elsewhere say Canada or Australia for a time.

Incidentally, whilst at university in Italy, I myself was subject to racial abuse. I am a white female and one day woke up to find a the Nazi party emblem in red paint on my apartment door. I don't think I have ever been so scared in my life with events that followed but I don't want to go into that. I put it down to ignorance and a lack of education. Italy was being bombarded at the time with Albanian refugees and crime was rife, so some Nazi thugs took it out on anyone who wasn't Italian. Another case of people getting mixed up between asylum seekers and normal immigrants.

So I have finished waffling now. Something does need to be done. I truly believe that the genuine asylum seekers would be grateful for a roof over their heads and food for years so long as they knew they were safe from harm and wouldn't particularly care about the money aspect. People's priorities change when they have been victim. In this country our priorities include having enough money to feed and cloth our families, having lots of friends and being accepted by society. Genuine asylum seekers see these priorities as being further down the list for the most part. In most cases, the fight for survival, being safe from murderous regimes, yes being fed and being warm. I believe Great Britain can provide those aspects without the need for putting them up in hotels 5star or 1star, without the need for providing them with money. Some would argue that this is degrading and that they need their own money. I would say they do not have a true understanding of degradation. Ask a true asylum seeker what degradation means and they will give you a different answer I am sure.

I feel sad that people are abusing the system, and ruining chances for genuine asylum seekers, but I truly believe it is up to us to put this system right. We should do something now before it is too late. At least lets have similar policies to our more strict EU counterparts!

[disillusioned]

Voice of reason.

Like you I don't not differentiate by colour, racism or dicrimination of any kind is abhorrant and should not be tolerated.

Also, I agre that those in genuine need of help should not be refused asylum or entry, it is our morla obligation. However, my doubt is that not everyone who wishes to claim asylum are genuine and this is the problem. I have no problem whatsoever with immigrants, providing they are genuine asylum seekers or have skills which will add to our economy. I believe the problem to be more complex than anyone ever anticipated it ever being, and there has to be an answer.

My initial rant was at the state of the country as a whole, not just the asylum issue. By virtue of the fact that most replies to my post have highlighted the Asylum problem, just shows the depth and conviction of feeling this issue is causing. Whatever your views on the matter, the fact remains that this country is dying on its feet and something needs to be done now.

[Lickszz]

Labours Policy on Asylum a joke. I have to say Labour these days are just same as the Tories used to be, well - maybe not quite as bad but that way inclined. Who else is there to vote for?

[halevan]

I read the other day that this country has stopped all immigration, but not the asylum seeker's as they are a different category, forgive me, but what the hell are they talking about, asylum seeker's ARE immigrant's, it makes no difference what they call it, we are being ovewhelmed and swamped by these people, it must be stopped dead now. No exception's for any reason, what do these ruling nutcases need, to make them realise that this country is FULL to capacity and we cannot and WILL not take any more. The juidiciary are ruling agains't David Blunket as he is trying to reduce the vast number's of them coming in, who do these judges think they are?

I bet they would hold a different view if they had to live at the side of them, instead of being insulated in their posh guarded homes away from reality.

[Voiceofreason]

Dear Halevan

I am extremely concerned when people confuse the issues of immigration and asylum. I have to say and I am sure the majority will agree that these two issues are completely separate and grouping the two together only goes to fuel racial prejudice and highlight people's lack of education and awareness.

I would like to ask Halevan where exactly he thinks he hails from? Might I remind the people of Yorkshire that the majority of our ancesters hail from Norway and Denmark (In the form of the vikings) and that much of yorkshire dialect still today has remnants of it's scandinavian history.

I would also like to point out that 40,000 years ago we ALL stem from the same genetic pool, from a tribe in the congo and that is SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN. Every one of us is related. ALL of OUR ancesters migrated at some point in search of food and water.

I feel sorry for people who don't understand that. THe issue of asylum however, is a simple one! SOME people are taking advantage of our good nature and claiming asylum in order to fraudulently obtain monies and have a higher standard of living than their own countries.

I would however like to ask Halevan what he would intend doing, in the unlikely event that Saddam were to take power in this country. If he were to torture your family, rape you wife, kill your children and seize all your possessions. If he then threw you in jail for failing to convert to Islam. What would you do then? If you were to escape would you try to seek ASYLUM in another country. Or would you be pleased that he had destroyed your life and just accept that really your complete aversion to seeking refuge in another country also extends to you in this unfortunate scenario and therefore you wouldn't bother.

Once you had sought asylum in that other country, how would you feel about parocchial attitudes surrounding your arrival, from people who were verbally and often physically abusive to you because they saw you as a drain of resources. I suspect arrogance dictates you think it could NEVER HAPPEN TO YOU.

[Michael_W]

There are many people who share the same view as Halevan, you only have to read some of the posts on this forum. You make good points about our history and ancestry, Voiceofreason, but do you not wonder why these asylum seekers end up on our doorstep when fleeing their homelands when there are so many other countries in between us. As I have said before on this forum the UK is a soft touch and things need to change !
People would not feel so strongly if our homeless, sick and old age pensioners were treat with as much compassion by the govt as these asylum seekers.

[halevan]

Dear voice of reason,
Yes I am aware that we all came from a single cell in the beginning, I also know about the viking's from scandinavia, the roman's the french, the german's ( Saxon's ) spanish, raping and pillaging this has been going on for thousand's of year's.

I can assure you that I am not prejudiced agains't anyone from any country, neither am I arrogant, intolerant, or biased. I am quite aware that no one in the world is from a pure race, hitler tried this and failed miserably.

However, the asylum seeker's issue is quite another matter, we are taking people into this country who are determined to kill, maim, poison, and destroy us in any way they can, do you prefer to allow these kind to come here and welcome them with open arm's? if so, I do not understand your reasoning!

Are you prepared to see your family, wife, children, friend's put at risk because SOME immigrant's who arrive here are TERRORIST'S? I do not think so! Furthermore, we are not living 40,000 year's ago, times have changed, it is the year 2003 and today we have separate countries with their own lifestyle, who have evolved differently.

We should be taking care of our own, first and foremost not taking the problem's of the world on OUR shoulder's at the expense of the population of this country, from what you say, I QUESTION YOUR MOTIVES? and wonder why? and on what basis you form your very elequent opinion.
Hal. Evans.

[Voiceofreason]

If anyone cares to read my very first post then they would realise I too want an end to the constant stream of fraudulent asylum seekers!!!!!!!!!

However, I fail to understand those people who group immigrants, genuine asylum seekers, hoards of fraudulent asylum seekers (guesstimate over 90%) etc. in the same category.

So don't question my motives Halevan.

This country has gone soft! But racist abuse IS NOT the answer!

[Voiceofreason]

Just one more thing. Out of the supposed 100,000 who enter this country every year (please read my first note on the website as I know this figure to be far higher), how many exactly do you think are terrorists?

What about the IRA? SHould we ban all Irish men? What about ETA should we ban all the Spanish? Ridiculous nonense.

Finally, I am well aware we have all moved on from 40,000 years ago, however, we will continue to migrate as long as there is a means of travel. That's all I meant!

THIS REALLY IS FINALLY NOW! I too am outraged at the drain on our resources. My mother after years of owrking really hard had a near fatal car accident abroad, lost everything and has just had her disability reduced for the third time. Her condition is no better or worse. SHe has worked all her life paying into NI, as have I. I find it outrageous that people come into this country and take away monies from my mum's purse.

If you care to read ALL my messages you will realise that I want an end to this too but there are genuine asylum seekersand if we were to accept a couple of hundred each year it wouldn't break the Bank. We ARE after all one of the richest countries in the world.

Let's STOP the racism, STOP the confusion between normal immigrants, GENuine asylum seekers, fraudulent asylum seekers, and terrorists. Let's educate those who fail to see a difference between them.

Kind Regards