[mickoh]

Did any of the forum members work at the place where this was made - I am not from Sheffield originally but a work colleague has told me that everybody who worked there knew exactly what was going on and what it was for. He even told me that there were people with knee pads on polishing the inside of a supposed 'pipe'. It all sounds a bit far fetched but I wondered if anybody could shed any light

[shoegal]

Completely true!

The 1000mm 'gun' barrells were made at Sheffield Forgemasters. Only the last shipment was intercepted as the bulk of the 'order' had already been dispatched although the Iraqis never assembled much less tested the gun. The raid was carried out by Customs & Excise but the Directors had been given authority by the DTI ie the UK government was well aware of what was happening!

Forgemasters were not alone - Walters Sommers, Von Roll, Uldry Trading and Soceta delle Fucine were also involved in so-called Project Babylon. ALL companies were aware of the country and the project they were supplying. The then directors of Forgemasters did not face any charges. The scientist behind the gun's design (Gerald Bull) was (allegedley) assasinated by Israeli Mossad agents.

Selling arms to the Middle East isn't new - the US and UK government have long used it a way of preserving access to oil as well as recouping money lost through its purchase. Arms sales stabilize oil flow by tying Middle Eastern states to western military suppliers. As a result the US and UK Governments were complicit in fueling 8 years of war between Iran and Iraq and helped to initiate the gulf war.

[NGHIC]

Yes, it was well known at the time that something fishy was going on since the machine tools and degree of honing required eliminated all but a smooth bore gun. What was confusing was the wall thickness which was far too thin for a conventional artiliery piece.

[melthebell]

wasnt it when things were different tho and us and the US were "friends" with iraq?

[Phanerothyme]

Originally Posted by mickoh

Did any of the forum members work at the place where this was made - I am not from Sheffield originally but a work colleague has told me that everybody who worked there knew exactly what was going on and what it was for. He even told me that there were people with knee pads on polishing the inside of a supposed 'pipe'. It all sounds a bit far fetched but I wondered if anybody could shed any light

I don't think it was a secret anyhow. Anyone making stuff for Gerard Bull would need to have been comatose not to know what it was for.

There are a few sections of Project Babylon on view at the excellent Royal Armouries Museum on Portsdown Hill, Hampshire.

It was seized after Bull (an artillery and ballistics genius) was liquidated by persons unknown.

Originally Posted by melthebell

wasnt it when things were different tho and us and the US were "friends" with iraq?

No, this was in 1990

[Gemini2]

Hi, my mum worked in xray at E.S.C. and she told us all about it years later when we took the family to Fort Nelson on Portsdown Hill. You are quite right Phanerothyme it is an execelent place to visit. Theris a ring of forts like that all round Pompey (Portsmouth), even in the solent.

[PopT]

Nothing ever seems to change.

I have actually seen a copy of a Government letter about the manufacture of 'Supergun' parts, so they did know all about the situation with Iraq at that time

I was reading an article published recently in 'The Economist' saying the USA had given out 380,000 pieces of armoury to the new Iraqi forces and had never recorded any serial numbers or details of these guns.

They openly admit they do not know where they are.

In fact when the allied forces seize weapons in raids or in combat with the "insurgents", they are not even sure they aren't the ones they've issued which are being used against them.

When it comes to arms deals it seems to be OK for most governments to look the other way.

The missiles the Argentinians used against us in the Falkland war were shipped into the USA and then transported through to Argentinia to be jigged by the Israelis so they could fire them against the British Forces.

I was in Thailand last month and a restaurant manager was telling me how money was raised to pay for his father's heart surgery, his brother who is in the army there pawned his gun.

Once guns are out there, it appears that anyone can get hold of them so easily.

Not So Happy Days!

[snowler]

I worked for an Irish leather company in Sheffield who tried to get in on the supergun contract, they imported 10 ton of leather for the holster.

[RiffRaff]

Originally Posted by snowler

I worked for an Irish leather company in Sheffield who tried to get in on the supergun contract, they imported 10 ton of leather for the holster.

Brilliant !

[Timbuck]

Originally Posted by shoegal

Completely true!

The 1000mm 'gun' barrells were made at Sheffield Forgemasters. Only the last shipment was intercepted as the bulk of the 'order' had already been dispatched although the Iraqis never assembled much less tested the gun. The raid was carried out by Customs & Excise but the Directors had been given authority by the DTI ie the UK government was well aware of what was happening!

Forgemasters were not alone - Walters Sommers, Von Roll, Uldry Trading and Soceta delle Fucine were also involved in so-called Project Babylon. ALL companies were aware of the country and the project they were supplying. The then directors of Forgemasters did not face any charges. The scientist behind the gun's design (Gerald Bull) was (allegedley) assasinated by Israeli Mossad agents.

Selling arms to the Middle East isn't new - the US and UK government have long used it a way of preserving access to oil as well as recouping money lost through its purchase. Arms sales stabilize oil flow by tying Middle Eastern states to western military suppliers. As a result the US and UK Governments were complicit in fueling 8 years of war between Iran and Iraq and helped to initiate the gulf war.

I was working on the docks in Teeside as a "pipework inspector" when the last shipment was about to be smuggled out..I would have sworn they were large flanged high pressure oil pipes.
Look here http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2477023.stm

[snout]

interesting thread - but did anybody replying to mickoh actually work there or is this all hearsay?

[PopT]

Reply to Snout

I worked at River Don Works and saw the pipes being forged and machined.

My brother worked at the engineering company in Nottingham where the Breach for the gun was machined.

The drawings for the breach were locked into a safe every night, my brother's mate was put in charge of the job, his former job was an Armourer in the British army.

Nothing in this world can remain secret for long.

Happy days!

[Tooeg]

As Billy Connolly says there has never been a war where the british didn't sell weapons to both sides.