[John]

I read some statistics on the number of accident caused by tramlines due to wet weather in Sheffield.

The figures presented was over a six month period and was very high. Unfortunately I can't remember the source so I won't quote what it was without backing it up but I can tell you the numbers involved were unacceptable.

Have you had any bad experience with tramlines due to bad weather or do you think its a case of only happening to bad drivers?

[HxTim]

I've been in a car driving on wet tramlines downhill and it was quite scary.

Not "going to lose control any second" scary, but I could feel the car planing a bit.

[Cyclone]

they are slippier when their wet.

So you simply move a few inches to one side or the other.

The entire road is only safe if you drive safely.

[Plain Talker]

It is my belief that the tramlines are unsafe for a number of reasons:-

1) the actual tracks' gauge-measurement, as laid in the road, correspond, almost exactly to the average distance between car-wheels. if your tyres are on one of the tracks, it's odds-on that your otheer tyre will be on the track at the other side.

2) there are parts of the track, where the tram lines are either raised above the level o the road, or have sunk, under the level of the tarmacking. if your car or bike (motorbike or pushbike!) comes into contactwith the raised or droped section, you can potentially lose traction and control of your car/ biks.

3) the tramtracks ought to have some sort of roughened surface to the part that is uppermost on the road surface. This would mean that the other road-using vehicles have traction when their tyres are touching the tracks.

4) in an ideal world, the tram would have been designed as a segregated rail system, as it is near hyde park, and woodbourn road section, towards Meadowhall,and run alongside teh roadway, rather then in the traffic. (this would have had a two-fold benefit. the tramtracks would only intersect with the road-vehicles at junctions where the track crossed the roads, making the carriageway safer for the cars etc, and secondly, the tram would not cause hold-ups in traffic, nor be held up by traffic, making it more efficient)

5) An added hazard with the tracks is that because we have only had tram-tracks back in the city for 10 years, cyclists and drivers are not experienced in cycling/ driving with tram tracks. In the "olden" days, the tram tracks were more familiar, every town and city, virtually had them, and folks were used to them. Cyclists knew how to avoid getting their wheels caught in the grooves of the tracks, and accidents were rarer:- today, (yes, even ten years on!) we are still unfamiliar with the tracks and accidents happen frequently.

Driving with the tram tracks is a very scary experience, in the wet.

Two cyclist friends of mine have both come to grief on the same stretch of track, at Gleadless Townend, the White Lane section, that runs from the Old Harrow Pub, to the Kwik-Save.

I cannot remember the weather conditions that my sisters ex-boyfriend's accident took place, so I cannot comment on whether the rails were slippy that day, but, regardless, he came off his bike, and was, sadly, fatally injured.

Lately, another friend came to grief, this was in the last couple of weeks of bad weather.

He lost control of his bike, because his back wheel locked as he was riding along the track near the White Lane tramstop. he came off his bike, and has damaged his shoulder, (his shoulder was wrenched) and he was bloodied and bruised, and has a "lovely" case of road-rash. he was not wearing a helmet, (because the water was dripping into his eyes from the helmet band, making it more of a hazard to wear than to not-wear it)- he was lucky that he was not more severely injured.

he suggests that the signs along the road-sections that say "Beware, slippy when wet" should be altered, to read

"Beware! Tracks slippy at all times, lethal when wet!"

I agree with him.

PT

[MuteWitness]

there a nightmare on a bike and some cars still like to drive 1 foot behind you!

[hj dary]

Come on chaps, its not that hard!!

Drive slightly to the left or right of centre and you will miss the lines.

I drive around 30,000 miles a year, mostly in Sheffield and have never found the lines to be a problem.

[Rich]

Only problem for me is that the likes of Shalesmoor tram stop tend to flood in heavy rain... Which renders the tracks pretty much useless thus the tram has to terminate there.

[RPG]

If you drive safely and not on the rails themselves its perfectly safe, as hj dary says just drive to the left or right of them.

[nozem]

Does anyone know of any laws against driving on tram lines that are set in the road as they are in Sheffield.

[mumkin]

It's almost a "Darwinian" event when cyclists get caught in the tracks. Surely they must know that their wheels fit snugly into the gape, Surely they know that when the tracks are wet they are slippery.........you'd think so wouldn't you!

[monkey104]

Try riding a motorcycle over them when it is wet! It makes things pucker up a little.
I have to make sure I am not accelerating or braking.
Even in my land rover I get a bit of a wobble as I go over them, and I have to go over them as the tracks run parallel to my right turn.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Originally Posted by nozem

Does anyone know of any laws against driving on tram lines that are set in the road as they are in Sheffield.

No, but the mostly pre-1960 legislation dealing with 'old-style' trams will still apply.
If time permits, I'll try to locate it and provide a link.

[molly44]

Originally Posted by mumkin

It's almost a "Darwinian" event when cyclists get caught in the tracks. Surely they must know that their wheels fit snugly into the gape, Surely they know that when the tracks are wet they are slippery.........you'd think so wouldn't you!

its not as easy as that, especially when you have cars at the back of you wondering why you dare to stray away from the side of the gutter. its not just the metal tracks that are a hazard.
The concrete that they are set in is also raised above the level of the road. this is also a hazard when its wet, and needs to be treated with respect when your cycling on or near it.
so inevitably you tend to stray out into the center of the road more and of course this enrageges the holier than thou car driver who believes the road is for motorist only.
and how dare you slow them down by even a mile an hour.
read previous posts and threads about cyclist there are plenty of them around!

[GodStar]

Originally Posted by Plain Talker

It is my belief that the tramlines are unsafe for a number of reasons:-
I think you're being bit sensationalist here.

1) the actual tracks' gauge-measurement, as laid in the road, correspond, almost exactly to the average distance between car-wheels. if your tyres are on one of the tracks, it's odds-on that your otheer tyre will be on the track at the other side.
Have you researched this thoroughly?

2) there are parts of the track, where the tram lines are either raised above the level o the road, or have sunk, under the level of the tarmacking. if your car or bike (motorbike or pushbike!) comes into contactwith the raised or droped section, you can potentially lose traction and control of your car/ biks.
As far as I know all the tracks are bedded on concrete which sits on the road. In any case if it was a bad hazard- any worse than the usual peculiarities / potholes, im sure the authorities will pick this up in their regular maintenance inspections
3) the tramtracks ought to have some sort of roughened surface to the part that is uppermost on the road surface. This would mean that the other road-using vehicles have traction when their tyres are touching the tracks.
This wouldnt make for a very comfortable tram ride

4) in an ideal world, the tram would have been designed as a segregated rail system, as it is near hyde park, and woodbourn road section, towards Meadowhall,and run alongside teh roadway, rather then in the traffic. (this would have had a two-fold benefit. the tramtracks would only intersect with the road-vehicles at junctions where the track crossed the roads, making the carriageway safer for the cars etc, and secondly, the tram would not cause hold-ups in traffic, nor be held up by traffic, making it more efficient)

5) An added hazard with the tracks is that because we have only had tram-tracks back in the city for 10 years, cyclists and drivers are not experienced in cycling/ driving with tram tracks. In the "olden" days, the tram tracks were more familiar, every town and city, virtually had them, and folks were used to them. Cyclists knew how to avoid getting their wheels caught in the grooves of the tracks, and accidents were rarer:- today, (yes, even ten years on!) we are still unfamiliar with the tracks and accidents happen frequently.

Driving with the tram tracks is a very scary experience, in the wet.

It isnt to most - as evidenced by the poll results.

Two cyclist friends of mine have both come to grief on the same stretch of track, at Gleadless Townend, the White Lane section, that runs from the Old Harrow Pub, to the Kwik-Save.

I cannot remember the weather conditions that my sisters ex-boyfriend's accident took place, so I cannot comment on whether the rails were slippy that day, but, regardless, he came off his bike, and was, sadly, fatally injured.

Lately, another friend came to grief, this was in the last couple of weeks of bad weather.

He lost control of his bike, because his back wheel locked as he was riding along the track near the White Lane tramstop. he came off his bike, and has damaged his shoulder, (his shoulder was wrenched) and he was bloodied and bruised, and has a "lovely" case of road-rash. he was not wearing a helmet, (because the water was dripping into his eyes from the helmet band, making it more of a hazard to wear than to not-wear it)- he was lucky that he was not more severely injured.

he suggests that the signs along the road-sections that say "Beware, slippy when wet" should be altered, to read

"Beware! Tracks slippy at all times, lethal when wet!"

I agree with him.

PT

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by molly44

its not as easy as that,

Yes it is.........you know the hazards so avoid them. Simple init!

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Shaw

No, but the mostly pre-1960 legislation dealing with 'old-style' trams will still apply.
If time permits, I'll try to locate it and provide a link.

Try these:

Tramways Act 1870 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...way%22#match-1
Regulation of Railways Act 1871 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...way%22#match-1
Light Railways Act 1896 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...way%22#match-1

[mike.sufc]

If you can't proficiently drive on a road with wet tram tracks, you aren't skilled enough to be driving a car.

[Plain Talker]

good lord, an 8 year old thread, resurrected!

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by Plain Talker

good lord, an 8 year old thread, resurrected!

But apparently still relevant.........this is what moderators get for insisting you look on the sites search facility before posting!

Waits for moderator to close thread!!

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by mumkin

It's almost a "Darwinian" event when cyclists get caught in the tracks. Surely they must know that their wheels fit snugly into the gape, Surely they know that when the tracks are wet they are slippery.........you'd think so wouldn't you!

What do you propose, that they cycle on the pavement?