[craigmason]

Cabinet Minister Jack Straw has said he would prefer Muslim women not to wear veils at all. he would rather the veils be discarded completely do you agree with his comments?

[pertfoxylush]

Hmmmm - very unsafe ground. Muslim women wear these for a reason and he's asking them to remove them and discard them.

Has he got the right?

[muddycoffee]

Originally Posted by craigmason

Cabinet Minister Jack Straw has said he would prefer Muslim women not to wear veils at all. he would rather the veils be discarded completely do you agree with his comments?

Incorrect.
Jack Straw asks muslim women from his constituency if they would mind removing a veil from their face if they come to a meeting with him in his surgery. And they don't mind.

Not much has been made of this but Mr Straw is going quite deaf, and he probably needs help with being able to lip read a little too, and you cannot do this if you can only see the eyes of the person you are speaking with.

We all know asian people who speak with a heavy accent, and it is sometimes difficult to make out what they are saying, my guess is that if you also have hearing difficulties, and you cannot see their mouth, it would make the communication much harder.

[Greenback]

There are different interpretations of how the Qur'an says women should dress all over the world, many more liberal than others.

I'm very uncomfortable with the burqa. To me, living in a country which believes in liberal values, it signifies an oppression that is incompatible with those values.

Then again, those same liberal values would probably tell me it's none of my business - which it probably isn't.

[granda-grunt]

when in rome do as the romans do

[Don_Kiddick]

It gives them something else to whinge about

[pumatic]

I 'would prefer Muslim women not to wear veils at all', but I'm not arrogant enough to think that my wishes should supercede theirs. Makes my ar5e twitch a bit seeing someone in a burqa behind the wheel of a car though, can't do their observations any favours.

[Magilla]

Originally Posted by granda-grunt

when in rome do as the romans do

Indeed, I agree with Jack Straw 100%. I cant see how anyone could disagree. Its obvious that people prefer to see others faces.

[Zamo]

Originally Posted by pumatic

I 'would prefer Muslim women not to wear veils at all', but I'm not arrogant enough to think that my wishes should supercede theirs. Makes my ar5e twitch a bit seeing someone in a burqa behind the wheel of a car though, can't do their observations any favours.

If you go to a Muslim country then the wishes and beliefs of their culture are expected to be observed. Is that arrogant of them?

[LordChaverly]

Originally Posted by Greenback

There are different interpretations of how the Qur'an says women should dress all over the world, many more liberal than others.

I'm very uncomfortable with the burqa. To me, living in a country which believes in liberal values, it signifies an oppression that is incompatible with those values.

Then again, those same liberal values would probably tell me it's none of my business - which it probably isn't.

Actually, I think it is 'our business' if it has possible ramifications for the wider society, in terms of its potential impact upon social cohesion. In addition to raising the practical issue of the veil being an impediment to effective face to face communication, he also argued that it might be viewed as a symbol of separateness from the wider society. I think it is the latter which is by far the most important issue.

[**Topgun**]

I believe that people should try to mix and understand each other to get on, but, if hoodies are banned from shopping centres because it makes people uncomfortable and they have to remove them if they want to go in, same if a motorcyclist goes in a bank he /she has to remove their helmet , whats the difference with them having to do something to fit into society ?

[garryn]

The comparison I’d draw is with a few months ago and hoodies being banned. Whatever the reason, in both cases people are deliberately stopping others individually recognising them

[Greenback]

Originally Posted by LordChaverly

Actually, I think it is 'our business' if it has possible ramifications for the wider society, in terms of its potential impact upon social cohesion. In addition to raising the practical issue of the veil being an impediment to effective face to face communication, he also argued that it might be viewed as a symbol of separateness from the wider society. I think it is the latter which is by far the most important issue.

That's the point of all forms of Islamic dress though, isn't it? A signifier of adherence to a particular doctrine, and therefore a sort of separateness?

Personally I think it is attitudes and worldviews that are of paramount importance in encouraging integration, rather than worrying about whether someone wears a particular item of clothing or not on ideological grounds.

But the burqa still makes me very uncomfortable.

*drum roll*

I prefer a tweed jacket.

[bladesufc1]

Originally Posted by craigmason

Cabinet Minister Jack Straw has said he would prefer Muslim women not to wear veils at all. he would rather the veils be discarded completely do you agree with his comments?

yes i do fully!! he's asked them to remove not ordered them to remove so its up2 them!! soemthing like 70-80% of alll communication is done by body language,

WHEN IN ROME DO AS THE ROMANS DO

[Plain Talker]

which bit of the "veil" is it that JS is asking for removal?

is it the head-covering, or is it the Niqaab (or yashmak) which covers the face too?

It's confusing me, because both items are referred to as "a veil"

If it's the face covering, and it's that JS is genuinely going a bit "mutt", then there shouldn't be an issue, if he needs to read lips.

If it's the Hijaab, then there's no reason for him to request the removal. It's tantamount to asking a western woman to remove her clothes.

*goes off to google for a source for this story*

[cgksheff]

He is only talking about the face covering.

Perfectly reasonable.

[*Ryan*]

Originally Posted by craigmason

Cabinet Minister Jack Straw has said he would prefer Muslim women not to wear veils at all. he would rather the veils be discarded completely do you agree with his comments?

I agree 100%, but the fact is the people in question will say its their religion etc..

[Strix]

I've been musing over this for the past couple of days, and am still sitting on the fence. Is there really any difference between talking to a veiled face and talking to a person on the phone?

In this age of political correctness, are women wearing full veils contravening the disability act (or whatever it's official title is)?

The bank/crash helmet arguement is more than valid too

Can the IRA argue that full ski masks are a symbol of their belief system too

Does Jack Straw demand to see evidence of a true Scot when meeting a kilted individual

See? Still sitting on the fence

[KenH]

Originally Posted by Plain Talker

which bit of the "veil" is it that JS is asking for removal?

is it the head-covering, or is it the Niqaab (or yashmak) which covers the face too?

It's confusing me, because both items are referred to as "a veil"

If it's the face covering, and it's that JS is genuinely going a bit "mutt", then there shouldn't be an issue, if he needs to read lips.

If it's the Hijaab, then there's no reason for him to request the removal. It's tantamount to asking a western woman to remove her clothes.

*goes off to google for a source for this story*

He is talking about the bit that covers the face. It isn't really true that you only need to see the lips if you lipread, you also need to see expressions. You only have to look at the number of misunderstandings caused when people type on a board like this to see that face to face conversation is far superior. In fact people use those tacky smilies because they want to try to get over some tiny fraction of the gestures they could communicate in person. When someone has come to an MP's surgery then they must have something really important to discuss and they may as well stay at home and talk on the phone if you can hear their voice but can't see them.

Having said all that I wouldn't have the cheek to ask someone to take off a veil as it is none of my business. It is the business of politicians when they can see a bandwagon they can jump on with a chance or re-election. Who would have thought that Labour would be telling people what to wear in the same week that the Tories are aplauding gay marriage.

[Plain Talker]

success, I found a linky:

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homea...ticle_continue