[Zanglo]

This topic has been raised before, but I didn't see a satisfactory answer that people agreed upon. This I need if I'm spending money on.

Which IT courses are the best for their money(however much that is?), and which best help you decide which IT field you want to study around work?

Some people said Computeach are rubbish, but those advertised in the papers don't always seem trustworthy?

Thanks.

[esme]

I've been on a few from Learning Tree which were quite useful, they tend to be one week residential jobs tho

and I'm not sure what you mean by "which IT field you want to study around work?" what do you actually need the course for what is it going to help you do ?

[Zanglo]

Originally Posted by esme

I've been on a few from Learning Tree which were quite useful, they tend to be one week residential jobs tho

and I'm not sure what you mean by "which IT field you want to study around work?" what do you actually need the course for what is it going to help you do ?

Basically, I just want a career change(to study around my full-time work) and pass into a new career, but someone said I had to decide which IT field I wanted to pursue?

Is there just IT courses, and no specific fields?

[esme]

well if you want to get into support work there are courses on how to build a computer from the ground up, fix them when they go wrong and there are systems administration type courses which show you how to manage the system and set it up so other people can make it do things

then there's analysis and programming which for a short course will assume you already know how to analyse a problem and will tend to concentrate on specific languages and how to produce your solution to them using that language, longer courses may go some way towards teaching you how to dissect a problem using a specific methodology such as Prince or Yourdon

then there are the "how to for business" type courses which show you how to use specific software packages like word processors, spreadsheets or databases

so any idea what sort of direction you want to aim for

[Zanglo]

Originally Posted by esme

well if you want to get into support work there are courses on how to build a computer from the ground up, fix them when they go wrong and there are systems administration type courses which show you how to manage the system and set it up so other people can make it do things

then there's analysis and programming which for a short course will assume you already know how to analyse a problem and will tend to concentrate on specific languages and how to produce your solution to them using that language, longer courses may go some way towards teaching you how to dissect a problem using a specific methodology such as Prince or Yourdon

then there are the "how to for business" type courses which show you how to use specific software packages like word processors, spreadsheets or databases

so any idea what sort of direction you want to aim for

Thanks esme, But I still don't have any clear idea of which path I'd like to take as regards a new career.

I've been online some years, and know basics, but IT seems daunting, that's why I wanted to check out the courses.

[Pete1024]

the best way (and its free) is to get an 'internship' with a local it company. We've done it before and it worked out quite well. You'll get to learn hand on in real cases, learn lots and it will cost nothing. We get an extra hand so we're happy, at the same time you've got access to our book library to learn for any exams you wish to take.

[alchresearch]

I don't think any company would really take you seriously with a short-term IT course, such as ECDL or anything by Computeach.

You really need to consider a two year HND at university if you want to be anything other than a simple IT technician earning circa £10,000.

Failing this, an employer would want to see a long-established track record in IT, as experience is just as valuable as qualifications.

[sharpend]

for most employers ecdl just shows that you have a piece of paper showing you can do what 99% of people can do anyway.

We are thinking about certified dreamweaver and/or flash developer courses for our staff

anyone any experience with this ?

[fox20thc]

Originally Posted by sharpend

for most employers ecdl just shows that you have a piece of paper showing you can do what 99% of people can do anyway.

We are thinking about certified dreamweaver and/or flash developer courses for our staff

anyone any experience with this ?

No Sharpend but if you did DW or flash course I would certainly be interested.

(about the other thing, will be in touch once the festival madness is out of the way )

[sharpend]

Originally Posted by fox20thc

No Sharpend but if you did DW or flash course I would certainly be interested.

(about the other thing, will be in touch once the festival madness is out of the way )

As far as I know, DW/flash is for a person - I think you just study like mad and go to a college and sit the exam...

OK - You have my direct email/phone (unfortunately, we are on hols when its the festival)

[esme]

also bear in mind IT may not be the best long term career choice

thanks to offshoring a lot of development work and a fair amount of support work is done in other countries, now more power to these other countries they found a way of making money and went for it I've got no problem with that, but our government allowed what is basically an unfair business practice and watched as thousands of highly trained and skilled workers got dumped on the "job seeker" market because the competition has much lower overheads and therefore can undercut them no matter what they do.

the only real long term positions left are the ones at the top and they are few and far between.

I can work in IT because I can get hands on when I have to, which is a niche not addressed by offshore companies, also I go for the lower end of the market. I work with very small companies and individuals who the offshore companies aren't interested in because there's too many customers and not enough profit to justify it.

if I were starting over now I wouldn't choose IT as a career.

[toct]

Have you cosidered the Open Uni? I am doing a Degree in computing over 6 years which suits me fine. I pick up some other quals along the way (Certificate in IT & Computing and a Diploma in Computing) and you can vary the course you wan to study.

www3.open.ac.uk/courses/classifications/information_technology_and_computing.shtm

HTH

[alchresearch]

My only concern with such a long term OU course would be the validity of the modules you took right at the start. Computing moves very fast and stuff I learnt three years ago has now been superseeded by newer technologies.

[toct]

Originally Posted by alchresearch

My only concern with such a long term OU course would be the validity of the modules you took right at the start. Computing moves very fast and stuff I learnt three years ago has now been superseeded by newer technologies.

True but think about some one who starts a standard IT based degree in 2uni. The content is pretty set for the next 3 years. Doing it with the OU the modules are all regularly updated and there are always new ones coming on (e.g. when since i started 2 years ago 2 of my planned courses have been updated already).

As you say computing moves V fast and doing any degree level course is always going to be a little behind. The way i see it at least this way if some new ground breaking technology turns up shortly i will be able to incoorperate it into my degree, which is more than could be said for standard Uni.

Anyway it suits me

[Bago]

Zanglo: If you don't mind me asking, how old are you ? What salary level are you looking at ?

You said you want to change careers, but do you know how the IT industry works ? i.e. the whole software/system lifecycle. If you understand this, then you will know what jobs are required for every stage of that cycle. This is what people meant by "what sort of IT".

The cycle goes roughly something like this:

Data requirements/capture (e.g. business analyst role) ->
Modelling (e.g. business anaylst role) ->
system requirements (e.g. system analysts) ->
development of system/software (e.g. developer, application developer) ->
testing (e.g. developer/tester) ->
support (e.g. 1st line helpdesk, 2nd line helpdesk, 3rd line helpdesk roles)

Then it can go back to data requirement again for refining the system a second time round.

I can say that, most people get their foot in the door by doing support work. I too did this as well. Then went onto development.

If you want to serious sustain and make a career in IT, then it's good to have a programming language behind you. Currently, it's Visual basics, possibly other web-based scripting language too...

Forget the courses like ECDL. It's more user-orientated, and it's practically no use to a technical person. We don't need you to know this, because the more technical you become, the less such qualification are to you. They are too "high-level". (Oh, also get used to such computer jargons will help too.)

By the way, what industry were you working in before ? Maybe you should approach it this way. Make good use of your previous knowledge, and find a company which will train you in such areas ? For example, if you were working in an engineering company before, and you have knowledge of the engineering industry. A job advert for a low-entry level CAD designer would be ideal for you.

In my last job, I worked with a p/t housewife who was a user/support person, and had absolutely no knowledge what-so-ever of the IT industry. She just clicked, clicked, clicked following a manual. That's the way the industry goes...

---------------
I hope you know what you're getting into. If you want to remain on top of the game, sometimes you gotta self-learn as well, and keep up with certain technologies, and such. I feel I'm dumbed down a lot too in my previous jobs compared to my peers who worked in small companies, but learnt a hell of a lot more in terms of development and computing skills.

[Bago]

Originally Posted by esme

also bear in mind IT may not be the best long term career choice

thanks to offshoring a lot of development work and a fair amount of support work is done in other countries, now more power to these other countries they found a way of making money and went for it I've got no problem with that, but our government allowed what is basically an unfair business practice and watched as thousands of highly trained and skilled workers got dumped on the "job seeker" market because the competition has much lower overheads and therefore can undercut them no matter what they do.

the only real long term positions left are the ones at the top and they are few and far between.

I can work in IT because I can get hands on when I have to, which is a niche not addressed by offshore companies, also I go for the lower end of the market. I work with very small companies and individuals who the offshore companies aren't interested in because there's too many customers and not enough profit to justify it.

if I were starting over now I wouldn't choose IT as a career.

This is certainly pretty true of the reflection of the IT industry out there.

I think myself and a lot of my peers who are still in IT are either in small companies working like a dog for pittance. e.g. RAD - rapid application development. Or doing support work which would not be outsourced abroad. i.e. public contracts. Even I was made redundant from a public contract because the project finished its lifecycle, and no more money are to be spent on it. I should maybe have gone into contracting like a few others did.

If you choose support work, make sure that it's a Public contract too. Another friend also work in Fujitsu for the Inland Revenue contract. Such contracts, I cannot see be outsourced abroad. If you're lucky, you may wanna jump onto the bandwagon right now with the big NHS contract that is in Leeds. However, I think they want people with experiences. Then again, it does not hurt to look at what is available.