Martial Artists: Why do you train?

jimanyjim · 14-05-2006, 11:12

Hey guys

Thought this might be an interesting thread because of the large number of martial artists on this board. I'm interested in:

a) What originally made you decide to train, whether it be for self defence or fitness or something else.

b) What made you continue to train? Do you still feel the need to learn self defence techniques every week or is something else keeping you there, e.g. the people you train with, or just because it's fun? Are you still hoping to get in the ring/cage?

In my case I started to train in BJJ because I was intrigued by the success of the techniques in the early UFC's, and thought it would be cool to learn them. I was also trying to get fitter. Nowadays I think of BJJ as a fun mental work out rather than physical, and it's also one of the few things that I genuinely enjoy learning about.

I'd also like to know what keeps someone training in say, kung fu or karate for 10 years (or more). I don't mean this as an insult, but most people would agree that a boxer training for 3 years would be more likely to win a fight against this person. Even more so a person with MMA training. So what makes you so dedicated? Please understand that I tred to phrase that without it sounding like a dig, it certainly was not intended.

thanks for your responses.

Crayfish · 14-05-2006, 12:10

I train because I enjoy the competitive skill - against - skill aspect and to keep fit, but while I'm doing that I'd like to learn things that would be practically useful - hence training BJJ and kickboxing, both at clubs that involve full resistance sparring.

If I'm ever good enough to go for ring/cage fighting then I might do, but it's not really my primary goal at the moment... if I ever have time with nothing else to do I'd probably start taking it more seriously.

Wouldn't mind trying some kung fu styles just to see if there is anything that might be useful for MMA, and maybe to learn how to use some weapons. Might do over the summer.

jimanyjim · 14-05-2006, 13:53

Cool Crayfish, I don't know what drives people into the cage but full respect to anyone that does!

My personal opinion on the 'practically useful' aspect of training is that it's a losing battle, but worth fighting if you see what I mean. For example I think that if you train in a striking art, you should spar full contact. BJJ's strength comes from the fact that we are constantly pressure testing our stuff with full sparring. Therefore if you trained in these arts you would expect to be pretty well covered should you ever get into a fight. BUT I can think of at least 3 situations where you would be screwed:

A Gang attacks you

A knife is drawn

A Strong wrestler decides to belly to face suplex you on the concrete (yes I know no one knows wrestling around here lol)

Ok, so the obvious response is to learn knife defence, multiple attacker defense and wrestling. Fine, but then after the 10 years it take you to master all this, you get shot. My point is, you can never be prepared for everything, so is training for self defence an unachievable, and hence misguided goal?

emptycup · 14-05-2006, 14:43

Perhaps the best thing to do then is to just learn how to sprint faster than anybody else in sheffield eh? Or maybe any training in martial art gives someone an awareness and calmness to react to an attack. They may not use the style(s)they train in, but increased awareness probably goes a long way no?

Crayfish · 14-05-2006, 14:44

While it's hard to cover for every situation, you can still cover for a lot e.g. pub brawl, you just plain don't like someone etc. - being shot isn't something martial arts are generally going to help you with except that you might be fit enough to get out of there very quickly.

What training full contact/resistance also teaches you is that some situations aren't really possible to deal with and no technique is flawless - this is something that concerns me about arts that do teach knife defenses etc. but not in a realistic way. If someone pulled a knife on me I'd most probably be a blur in the opposite direction, but I think if someone was for example a black belt in traditional jujitsu or taekwondo they might be tempted to stick around, not knowing just how many things can actually go wrong with the techniques they've been shown. I knew someone who had only ever done Tai Bo (the aerobics thing) who said they weren't worried about being attacked with a knife because they thought they could kick it out of their opponents hands.

Plus training full resistance obviously gives you an edge in a direct one on one fight or even friendly (full contact) sparring with someone who's never trained realistically.

Also you would at least have a better chance should the gang fight, knife fight or wrestling scenario happen than someone who's never trained at all... does offer some self defense benefits at least, even if it doesn't necessarily turn you into an all-powerful invincible fighting beast

emptycup · 14-05-2006, 14:51

i fully agree with the knife scenario, every place I have seen teaching defence from a knife attack in my opinion has been incredibly unrealistic. I am sure there are places that have effective techniques mind...The main problem with defense against knife techniques is no-one shows a knife before they use it. It slips out of their back pocket and straight into someones gut (I have seen quite a few vitims of such incidents). Most defense techniques I have seen start with the knife out.......

I have heard good things aboiut systems like Krav Maga tho....

Crayfish · 14-05-2006, 15:11

Me too, still safer to leg it though

But I guess you might not always have that option

lotar · 14-05-2006, 17:02

As a reply to the original question I train for the fitness aspect and the enjoyment of training with different people and at different clubs. also training in different systems. I personally enjoy cross training as I believe no one system has it all. I train BJJ and Muay Thai
I teach KAPAP which is the next level on from Krav Maga.
As for knife defence, at our club we concentrate a lot of time to this subject.
We use NO LIE blades that mark your body to show the slash and stab wounds.
If you get attacked by a knife YOU WILL GET CUT and you have to be prepared for this.
In KAPAP we teach how to minimise the damage you could recieve from the knife, and end the fight quickly.
After saying this it is definately better to run away if possible.

jimanyjim · 14-05-2006, 17:26

If anyone is interested i've heard a lot of people say good stuff about Karl Tanswell's S.TA.B program for knife defense, and also Jerry Wetzel's Red Zone program. Both of these assume firstly that escape is not immediately possible and that you ARE likely to get cut. It's all based around clinch work and the techniques can be 'sparred' very easily.

Anyway, I've gone off of my original point here. I agree that martial arts can potentially give you an advantage in a fight situation. Howeve they can also put you worse off situation by giving you a false sense of confidence (as you mention) or teaching you bad/inappropriate technique. Isn't the best 'technique' for self defense to avoid the places where you are likely to meet violence, like clubs?

The more and more I think about it, the more the idea of self defense seems like a fallacy. It especially intrigues me that the most effective arts (if we can trust cage fights as a measure of effectiveness) are the least popular for the average joe who might get picked on by muggers, bullies etc. Gyms that require heavy sparring tend to be 'survival of the fittest', picking off those who can't take the pressure in the first lesson, who then flock to less pressured but perhaps less effective arts.

nigsmig · 14-05-2006, 19:05

hi, perhaps this is gonna sound odd but i practice my martial art mainly as a sort of meditation. i tune into my kinaesthetic sense and get better results if my mind winks out than if i think about what i'm doing. suppose its an exercise of flow, alignment and energy where feeling is useful and thinking sort of gets in the way.
i really cant say that i think i'd be any cop in a fight so no delusions on that one but i do seem to be able to develop short range power at odd angles, rather more fa jing than li.

BarraGergus · 14-05-2006, 20:22

crayfish fights like a man possesed.... i've got about 20 stone on him but he is a bendy man, and a pleasure to roll with.... oh and if you study really hard you can dodge a bullet..... i saw that guy in the matrix do it..... and it has to be real if its on telly.

Crayfish · 14-05-2006, 21:18

Eek, I weigh something like -4 stones? Can't be healthy

Was a good roll we had the other day! Not going to be training for a couple of weeks now though so my fitness will be somewhere around zero next time we meet

Davemantis · 15-05-2006, 09:19

I got into my art like most I was bullied as a kid and got fed up with it so it was a kind of necessity but what has kept me training in traditional arts compared to MMA, well the instructor. If the instructor only looks at the fancy stuff then all you are doing is glorified aerobics but if the instructor looks at the practical then the world is your oyster. At the end of the day traditional MT came about from necessity the need to protect your self and all they did was use what worked for them, isn’t that all that MMA do???????? So what’s the difference between MMA and TMA??????

If it works it works.

If you want to do some Chinese Martial arts come see me ill show you its not all like in the movies and flash.

GazB · 15-05-2006, 09:22

- Good way to channel stress and frustration of everyday life into something constructive
- Keeps me in good shape and fit
- I enjoy the competition and the buzz you get when you know you're good at something
- We have a laugh at training as well and it takes my mind off things

Cyclone · 15-05-2006, 10:11

I started because I wanted to do some self defence and a friend was already training.
I carried on because I enjoy the training and I like the people I train with.

Training for self defence is far from pointless. Just because a martial art isn't going to help if you're hit by a tactical nuke doesn't render it pointless. Most of the time people don't have tac nukes in their bag, so if you've trained for the most common self defence scenario then it may well be of some use to you at some point.

It's always worth making the point in training that if someone attacks you with a knife, you should expect to get cut. The trick is making sure you don't get killed.

theHook · 18-05-2006, 03:35

It started from reading nutrition and supplement, vitamins I bumped into a friend who does a lot of reading on Nutralite and we got chatting in a cafe at wicker about health, sports and I noticed he had a leaflet on Thai boxing and I enquired and well, I went and kept on training but moved Thai Boxing, then kicking boxing and then Kung Fu.

I think in back of my mind though what kept me training was me going home at night to see those big bellies of some people coming out of the pub and that was enough to keep me training.

andyb · 18-05-2006, 06:55

I started just because I fancied something to do, so that means I have been doing traditional Okinawan Goju Ryu Karate for 22 years!

I still do it because it challenges me mentally and physically, I certainly don't practice it for the fighting skills it has endowed me with. As no matter how good you are there is always someone better!

andyb
www.hallamdojo.co.uk

jimanyjim · 18-05-2006, 17:43

Hi Cyclone,

You know of the course that the self defence technique for a tactical nuke is 2 tactical nukes

I don't deny that training for self defence might help you in a violent situation, but what I mean to say is, is it really a valid reason for training?

Would it not be more worthwhile to train in an environment where you get hit and submitted because you enjoy the sport, you like testing your zone of comfort, you like being part of a group of interesting people, the challenge etc etc and after 10 years being able to say, wow, I've had such a satisfying experience and what a bonus! I don't think anyone would pick me to attack nowadays!

Be aware of the guys who collect knives and wear camoflage trousers for no apparent reason.. thats what happens when you worry to much about self defence!

Davemantis · 23-05-2006, 12:30

There is a new layout to my forum
Categories include
Introductions, Kickboxing, kung fu, tai chi, wing Chun, karate, mma, and more.

Have a look

dan__ · 29-06-2006, 14:03

I starting in the first istance because both parents trained in karate so naturally i did, and once into it i loved it. the atmosphere and the traditional parts of it are inspiring.

Mostly the fact that you can never know it all, so are always improving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimanyjim

I'd also like to know what keeps someone training in say, kung fu or karate for 10 years (or more). I don't mean this as an insult, but most people would agree that a boxer training for 3 years would be more likely to win a fight against this person. Even more so a person with MMA training. So what makes you so dedicated? Please understand that I tred to phrase that without it sounding like a dig, it certainly was not intended.

thanks for your responses.

This isnt a dig Jimanyjim, but what basis do you think a boxer with 3 years experiance would win against a karate ka with 10 years?