[Mister M]

Originally Posted by alchresearch

Not having a big flatscreen TV I imagine.

Nice when you can afford to be cynical

[anywebsite]

Originally Posted by janie48

How do you define poverty in this Country?

Relative poverty defined as is earning less than 60% of the median wage, after taxes & housing costs, for that size of household.

[MrSmith]

Originally Posted by anywebsite

Relative poverty defined as is earning less than 60% of the median wage, after taxes & housing costs, for that size of household.

In the year 2004/2005, the 60% threshold was worth £183 per week for a two adult household, £100 per week for a single adult, £268 per week for two adults living with two children, and £186 per week for a single adult living with two children. This sum of money is after income tax and national insurance have been deducted from earnings and after council tax, rent, mortgage and water charges have been paid. It is therefore what a household has available to spend on everything else it needs

Wow I thought we were well off, it appears we have always been in poverty.

[Skirmisher]

Originally Posted by Mister M

For many life isn't that simple, take this couple for instance
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/881136-m...-utter-poverty

Or the fact that many people go without benefits as they don't want to be stigmatised, or feel too proud.
Many pensioners struggle between heating and eating. Not to mention those who have lost their jobs and wait forever for their benefits to come through. Or the mentally ill dischrged from hospital and end up homeless etc.....

Admittedly there ARE exceptions.
Some people DO slip through the net

Just as there ARE people who are very well off and live a very rich life.

[Anna B]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

Admittedly there ARE exceptions.
Some people DO slip through the net

Just as there ARE people who are very well off and live a very rich life.

I think you'll find that far from being the exception there are a lot of people struggling like this, but they tend not to make the papers unless they do something drastic like this poor couple.

If, however, by dint of having loads of kids or fiddling the benefits, you are one of a very small number found to be living the life of Riley, your story will be plastered all over the newspapers and TV giving the impression that 'everyone's at it.'

[skinz]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

IMHO no one should be living in poverty in this country.

Everyone gets enough money to live on wether they be working or claiming benefits, the problem is, most people expect too much.

Most of the things that people take for granted are pointless things and not needed to have a happy and poverty free life.

If you can't manage on your income, take a look at your lifestyle, do you really need the things your spending your money on?

Make cuts or earn more.

It REALLY is that simple.

It really isn't that simple..unless you're simple.

[Skirmisher]

Originally Posted by Anna B

I think you'll find that far from being the exception there are a lot of people struggling like this, but they tend not to make the papers unless they do something drastic like this poor couple.

If, however, by dint of having loads of kids or fiddling the benefits, you are one of a very small number found to be living the life of Riley, your story will be plastered all over the newspapers and TV giving the impression that 'everyone's at it.'

There are far more that are quite happy and very well off, out of your lot of struggling people, how many of them don't have a tv, mobile phone, don't smoke, don't drink, don't do drugs, don't have computers, don't have computer games consoles?
Take away any that have any of the above then tell me how many are left living in poverty because if you can still afford ANY of the above out of your weekly income then AFAIAC they are NOT living in poverty.
Just take a look at any of the charity/news items from the African countries, you know, the ones where the kids faces are covered with flies!

THAT IS LIVING IN POVERTY!

I don't think I have ever seen anyone in this country looking like that.

So, it really IS THAT SIMPLE!

[Skirmisher]

Originally Posted by skinz

It really isn't that simple..unless you're simple.

See my last post!

[anywebsite]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

There are far more that are quite happy and very well off, out of your lot of struggling people, how many of them don't have a tv, mobile phone, don't smoke, don't drink, don't do drugs, don't have computers, don't have computer games consoles?
Take away any that have any of the above then tell me how many are left living in poverty because if you can still afford ANY of the above out of your weekly income then AFAIAC they are NOT living in poverty.
Just take a look at any of the charity/news items from the African countries, you know, the ones where the kids faces are covered with flies!

THAT IS LIVING IN POVERTY!

I don't think I have ever seen anyone in this country looking like that.

So, it really IS THAT SIMPLE!

You're talking about a different kind of poverty. Absolute poverty is when you can't afford food, less than about $2 a day. That rarely happens in this country.

Relative poverty is when you have significantly less than most other people, that's what the rest of us are talking about in this thread. That will exist for as long as there is a wide gap between rich & poor.

[Mister M]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

Admittedly there ARE exceptions.
Some people DO slip through the net

Just as there ARE people who are very well off and live a very rich life.

Do you think that most well off people don't live very rich lives?

[Skirmisher]

Originally Posted by anywebsite

You're talking about a different kind of poverty. Absolute poverty is when you can't afford food, less than about $2 a day. That rarely happens in this country.

Relative poverty is when you have significantly less than most other people, that's what the rest of us are talking about in this thread. That will exist for as long as there is a wide gap between rich & poor.

There is always some who are going to have more/less than others.

There is only one poverty, anything else is not poverty.
What you are talking about is called jealousy no matter how you want to dress it up.

[Skirmisher]

Originally Posted by Mister M

Do you think that most well off people don't live very rich lives?

What a stupid post!

Have you never seen or heard or read of anyone extremely well off who has died leaving a fortune while all along they lived a very frugal life?

[Mister M]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

What a stupid post!

Have you never seen or heard or read of anyone extremely well off who has died leaving a fortune while all along they lived a very frugal life?

No yours was the stupid post, if you wanted to make the point that a few well off people died leaving a fortune whilst leading a frugal life (as opposed to the majority of rich people), you should have said in your original post:
"Just as there ARE people who are very well off and live a very frugal life".
And yes I have heard of such people - some would say that they lead a rich life as they don't concern it with materialistic consumption.

[anywebsite]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

There is always some who are going to have more/less than others.

There is only one poverty, anything else is not poverty.
What you are talking about is called jealousy no matter how you want to dress it up.

The official definition is relative poverty. It doesn't always have to exist, it's a measure of income inequality. If there wasn't such a large gap between rich & poor then there wouldn't be any relative poverty.

You're right that it's not the same as absolute poverty. If you're in relative poverty it doesn't mean you're starving. It just means that you're poor relative to the people around you.

It's not an ideal measure though, the current accepted formula doesn't take into account any accumulated wealth. A retired millionaire living off their savings may come into the definition.

[Skirmisher]

Originally Posted by Mister M

No yours was the stupid post, if you wanted to make the point that a few well off people died leaving a fortune whilst leading a frugal life (as opposed to the majority of rich people), you should have said in your original post:
"Just as there ARE people who are very well off and live a very frugal life".
And yes I have heard of such people - some would say that they lead a rich life as they don't concern it with materialistic consumption.

Your point being?

[Mister M]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

Your point being?

My point being that mine wasn't the stupid post.

[Skirmisher]

Originally Posted by Mister M

My point being that mine wasn't the stupid post.

We will just have to agree to disagree on that one then.

[Anna B]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

There are far more that are quite happy and very well off, out of your lot of struggling people, how many of them don't have a tv, mobile phone, don't smoke, don't drink, don't do drugs, don't have computers, don't have computer games consoles?
Take away any that have any of the above then tell me how many are left living in poverty because if you can still afford ANY of the above out of your weekly income then AFAIAC they are NOT living in poverty.
Just take a look at any of the charity/news items from the African countries, you know, the ones where the kids faces are covered with flies!THAT IS LIVING IN POVERTY!

I don't think I have ever seen anyone in this country looking like that.

So, it really IS THAT SIMPLE!

You never will see anyone looking like that in a cold country, just as you will never see an African dieing of hypothermia. It doesn't mean they aren't poor. Poverty in this country is more comparable with a country like Rumania. We have people on a very poor diet, and going hungry.

As for your comment about TVs, mobile phones, games consoles etc, some may have them from before they were out of work, but when they break can't afford to have them mended or replaced.

As for suggesting they all smoke, drink and do drugs: well there's nothing like stereotyping is there? Says more about your attitude than theirs...

[skinz]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

See my last post!

I did, that's why I implied that you'd have to be simple to believe it.

[Ms Macbeth]

Originally Posted by Mister M

For many life isn't that simple, take this couple for instance
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/881136-m...-utter-poverty

Or the fact that many people go without benefits as they don't want to be stigmatised, or feel too proud.
Many pensioners struggle between heating and eating. Not to mention those who have lost their jobs and wait forever for their benefits to come through. Or the mentally ill dischrged from hospital and end up homeless etc.....

Pensioners who get full pension credit shouldn't be in poverty unless their housing benefit doesn't cover all their rent or mortgage. If they are in reasonably priced rented housing, their rent and council tax will be covered by benefits. They'll also get cold weather payments on top of the winter fuel allowance that everyone of state pension age gets.

However, if state pensions had been increased for everyone, those too proud to claim, or those who don't understand that they can, would be assured of a reasonable income. The excess for those with decent incomes would be recovered via income tax. Much simpler and much fairer IMO.