[Rupert_Baehr]

Originally Posted by alisonmanic

Signed as I believe it to be disguting. Why should humans have it 'better'? Cats are living creatures as well.

So are bacteria.

[MrSmith]

Originally Posted by Rupert_Baehr

How would you go about doing that? Would you do a full genetic evaluation on everybody, determine which people had genetic defects which were often hereditary and sterilise those people compulsorily?

Would you simply identify people who you suspected had genetic (or other) 'defects', sterilise them (so they couldn't breed in future) and sterilise their children to prevent them from breeding?

You could call the programme 'Eugenics'. You wouldn't be able to patent it though, it's been done before. Most recently in Sweden (which abolished compulsory sterilisation of 'defectives' in 1976 - but still sterilises transsexuals.)

I know a couple that adopted an unwanted child; the child was born with various disabilites, he had learning disabilities as well as physical disabilities, his childhood wasn’t great but he grew up to be an adult, but will require support for the remainder of his life. He did however meet a young lady; she too had learning disabilities and was incapable of supporting herself. Sadly they were both capable of producing a child, but incapable of caring for the child, fortunately his adopted parents are caring for the child which has a combination of their disabilities and also hasn’t had a particularly good childhood, he too will never be able to support himself and may well also go on to reproduce, at which point his adopted parents will be too old to care for another child.
Prevention in this case would have been much kinder than the life they have.

[Kerrangaroo]

I sign most anything I come across that is in support of animal welfare/protection.
The 'would you rather they perform experiments on humans' argument is frankly ridiculous and yes, why not does pop into my head. I think finding vounteers would be difficult though so it's easier to enlist the assistance of something that has no say in the matter. Deep down i'm sure they'd be very pleased to learn that there pain and suffering increases mans longevity.

[cressida]

Originally Posted by sci fi

Hi, British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection are trying to get 20'000 petitions signed and sent off. Please try and find the time to help, thanks. :0)


http://www.change.org/en-GB/petition...iff-university

I'm always wary of these forms, I would sign it but don't want to give my email address away

I once sent a cheque to the WWF and they contacted my bank and got my address, never sent anything to them afterwards, prefer to donate to charities by going in the shops, especially PDSA

[sci fi]

Originally Posted by HeadingNorth

No; I'm pointing out to you that this is a forum, a place for people to offer differing opinions, debate issues and come to conclusions. You clearly have no interest in doing any such thing, and are intent on labelling anyone who might disagree with you as being blind, regardless of whether they actually have any good points to make or not.

You clearly used the word debating, so yes you were assuming that this is a debate. You have your opinions I have mine, and no I do not think that making someone's lazy eye is a good reason to torture a poor defenceless animal. It is sick, please answer yes or no, would you take the place of this kitten or any other animal tortured for science?

[sci fi]

Originally Posted by alisonmanic

Signed as I believe it to be disguting. Why should humans have it 'better'? Cats are living creatures as well.

Brilliant, well chosen, don't listen to the ones that prey on weakness for their personal gain. That is what has brought to the point we are at now. One massively damaged planet. If the target is met and these experiments are stopped then it is a victory for humanity.

[sci fi]

Originally Posted by Kerrangaroo

I sign most anything I come across that is in support of animal welfare/protection.
The 'would you rather they perform experiments on humans' argument is frankly ridiculous and yes, why not does pop into my head. I think finding vounteers would be difficult though so it's easier to enlist the assistance of something that has no say in the matter. Deep down i'm sure they'd be very pleased to learn that there pain and suffering increases mans longevity.

Well said

[sci fi]

Originally Posted by MrSmith

According to the scientists they were never in pain, and I tend to agree with you about using animals to find cures for genetic disorders, when the solution is to stop passing the genetic disorder onto next generation of people.

There are so many things that could be done to help humanity in it's plight. Sadly the nasty and heartless people of the world seem get to make most of the choices. Meaning the weak get ripped to pieces while they get fat on the profit.

[mort]

remain civil please or there will be bans issued.

[biotechpete]

It's too easy for people who have no knowledge of how or why such experiments are undertaken to attack scientists with inaccurate and emotive words like 'torturing defenceless kittens' without any knowledge of the feelings of, or impact on, those involved in the work.

It is beholden upon anyone who supports medical and scientific progress, whilst acknowledging how troublesome the issue of vivisection can be, to confront the propaganda pushed by reactionary animal rights terrorists.

I would urge everyone to think very carefully about the potentially damaging effects that this could have on medical treatments and research, in the UK in particular, before signing this petition.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Originally Posted by sci fi

It is so easy to close your eyes

Maybe an inopportune phrase, given that ensuring our eyesight is the aim of the exercise?

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Originally Posted by sci fi

There are so many things that could be done to help humanity in it's plight. Sadly the nasty and heartless people of the world seem get to make most of the choices. Meaning the weak get ripped to pieces while they get fat on the profit.

Which of those 'so many things' could be utilised in place of the experiments to which you object, please?

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Originally Posted by sci fi

You clearly used the word debating, so yes you were assuming that this is a debate. You have your opinions I have mine, and no I do not think that making someone's lazy eye is a good reason to torture a poor defenceless animal. It is sick, please answer yes or no, would you take the place of this kitten or any other animal tortured for science?

No torture is involved there. As you know, you're using the word "torture" merely to support your anti-human view.

[Saffy]

Not read anything but the title ...I'd much rather they did experiments on rapists,etc.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Originally Posted by sci fi

Brilliant, well chosen, don't listen to the ones that prey on weakness for their personal gain. That is what has brought to the point we are at now. One massively damaged planet. If the target is met and these experiments are stopped then it is a victory for humanity.

No- if the experiments are stopped, it's another defeat for humanity at the hands of those who think that animals have equality with humans and who do not want terrible diseases/syndromes to be curable or cured.

[Obelix]

Originally Posted by sci fi

You clearly used the word debating, so yes you were assuming that this is a debate. You have your opinions I have mine, and no I do not think that making someone's lazy eye is a good reason to torture a poor defenceless animal. It is sick, please answer yes or no, would you take the place of this kitten or any other animal tortured for science?

You predicate your argument on the fact that the kitten is tourtured. This isn't however the case.

My answer however is no, I wouldn't. However would you be happy to go through life not using any drug or medical procedure that has been tested on animals? Even if that meant dying?

[Bypassblade]

Beats me how they can hold the test tubes

[Kerrangaroo]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Shaw

No- if the experiments are stopped, it's another defeat for humanity at the hands of those who think that animals have equality with humans and who do not want terrible diseases/syndromes to be curable or cured.

Are you saying that we aren't animal, that we are a species apart from them?

[Kerrangaroo]

Originally Posted by Obelix

You predicate your argument on the fact that the kitten is tourtured. This isn't however the case.

My answer however is no, I wouldn't. However would you be happy to go through life not using any drug or medical procedure that has been tested on animals? Even if that meant dying?

Yes but I stand to destroy the lives of people close to me, that is what stops me.

[Obelix]

Originally Posted by Kerrangaroo

Yes but I stand to destroy the lives of people close to me, that is what stops me.

If you are not prepared to walk the talk then why should anyone listen to you?