Cash in hand 'is morally wrong'

Vague_Boy · 23-07-2012, 23:30

Quote:

Paying a cleaner in cash 'is morally wrong': Minister says families who settle bills cash-in-hand are as bad as tax avoiders

Paying cleaners and tradesmen cash-in-hand is ‘morally wrong’, a minister said yesterday.

David Gauke claimed that making small cash payments was as bad as tax avoidance, which ministers have already called ‘morally repugnant’.

The Exchequer Secretary spoke out as he gave a speech outlining plans to name and shame those who engage in aggressive tax avoidance schemes to avoid paying their fair share.

LINK

There was a time when having a minister of the crown lecture you about morality seemed, well, kind of plausible.

But then you see stories like this.

MPs who repaid expenses got money back in secret deal

Intriguingly, young David Gauke has a bit of back history in regards to tax avoidance.

Quote:

David Gauke MP claimed £10,248.32 expenses back from taxpayers to avoid paying the stamp duty and fees involved in the purchase of his home in London. Not only is that in his own words “morally repugnant”, it is beyond hypocritical to lecture others against doing what he himself did. It is shameless.

LINK

dabuckle · 23-07-2012, 23:34

Can people not see this is how fascist governments begin?

Strix · 23-07-2012, 23:40

Oh ffs. I always paid tradesmen by cheque on principle, but cheques are now so defunct that the bank won't issue a new chequebook to me... Sooo, now how am I supposed to pay them? Are they all supposed to have card readers now?

HeadingNorth · 23-07-2012, 23:47

Paying cash isn't the problem, assuming you ask for a written receipt.

Paying cash-in-hand without any paperwork is what's - arguably - morally wrong, since it enables the workman to avoid declaring his income, and thus evade tax.

NorthernStar · 23-07-2012, 23:54

Nice to see the government getting their priorities right the day after being told of the missing trillions in secret tax havens, god forbid that some poor cleaners might avoid paying their share too.

I1L2T3 · 23-07-2012, 23:56

Interesting.

What is the impact of this? The customer presumably does not pay VAT and knowingly so? The tradesman may not put the payment through his/her books and may evade paying tax?

It looks like evasion and technically it's illegal. That said surely this is about tackling all forms of evasion and aggressive avoidance in an even-handed way. The government can't be seen to crack down on the easy targets while letting the bigger fish get away with it.

If others are seen to get away with avoiding and evading millions in tax what incentive is there for the struggling tradesman to play the game? I don't agree with it but I can see why cash in hand is so prevalent.

Remember though paying in cash in itself is not a crime. It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do if VAT is included in the price and a VAT receipt is available.

medusa · 24-07-2012, 00:05

My cleaner is self-employed, working through an agency and declares her income, so what exactly is wrong with paying her cash in hand?

Why should she have to wait for a cheque to clear just to please someone else, when she is declaring everything anyway?

chem1st · 24-07-2012, 00:09

If you have a meal at a friends house and you wash up, they would tax one for being a chef and t'other for being a cleaner if they could.

Phanerothyme · 24-07-2012, 00:10

The government and banks probably want to totally eliminate cash as altogether too uncontrollable. It's not a directly malign intention, but the 'unintended' consequences will be horrible. You can just about get by without an (increasingly sophisticated) payment card of some kind. But when that is no longer possible your participation in economic life is no longer under your control. Your economic life be completely completely in the hands of institutions and authorities.

OTOH, it's costs a fortune to have banknotes and coins, moving them about and the rest of it.

WRT to the OP: It's yet another case of :

"Stop the press! - `MP in startling display of hypocrisy`."

Anna B · 24-07-2012, 00:32

Setting a good example should start at the top.

Until it does, who is going to take notice of them?

danny128 · 24-07-2012, 03:50

watch fake britain on bbc iplayer then you will know plastic is not safe at all and banks are covering up the scam as they will lose all credit if the story goes into the neweadlines

taxman · 24-07-2012, 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by I1L2T3

Remember though paying in cash in itself is not a crime. It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do if VAT is included in the price and a VAT receipt is available.

Or if the trader is beneath the VAT threshold.

As far as I'm concerned it is not the business of the person paying the money for the job to worry about how that payment is then recorded in the traders' records.

Gauke seems to be saying that everyone who gets paid in cash is on the fiddle. It isn't necessarily so, it just means that there is greater scope for them not to declare it.

MrSmith · 24-07-2012, 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by medusa

My cleaner is self-employed, working through an agency and declares her income, so what exactly is wrong with paying her cash in hand?

Why should she have to wait for a cheque to clear just to please someone else, when she is declaring everything anyway?

Nothing at all wrong with it, I've been self employed for twenty years and won't take cheques because I once took someone to court for a bounced cheque and guess what, I never saw a penny of the money I was owed.

Also, taking a cheque doesn't mean it will go through the books,
Giving a receipt doesn't mean it will go through the books,
Most small businesses aren't VAT registered so its not avoiding VAT.
You pay for a service or product and the responsibility for paying tax falls entirely on the trader or business, and not the customer.

MrSmith · 24-07-2012, 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna B

Setting a good example should start at the top.

Until it does, who is going to take notice of them?

I agree

MrSmith · 24-07-2012, 06:06

Just heard him on TV and he is saying, its morally wrong to accept a discount for cash, or offering cash for a discount, because both these imply there is an intent to avoid paying tax, he’s probably got a point. But then I can still understand why someone would want to avoid giving their money to a government that acts immorally most of the time, and will only waste the money anyway.

Bonzo77 · 24-07-2012, 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strix

Oh ffs. I always paid tradesmen by cheque on principle, but cheques are now so defunct that the bank won't issue a new chequebook to me... Sooo, now how am I supposed to pay them? Are they all supposed to have card readers now?

You pay cash.....but you're supposed to pay the VAT too.

Kidorry · 24-07-2012, 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonzo77

You pay cash.....but you're supposed to pay the VAT too.

I thought VAT was included in the price.

regatta · 24-07-2012, 07:26

The biggest tax dodgers are the goverment, company directors,ect, get them lot sorted. Cleaners, tradesmen, we are only talking bus fare!

alchresearch · 24-07-2012, 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadingNorth

Paying cash-in-hand without any paperwork is what's - arguably - morally wrong, since it enables the workman to avoid declaring his income, and thus evade tax.

And doesn't give you any come-back should anything go wrong.

Ousetunes · 24-07-2012, 07:46

What would happen to Nonna's?

All those look-at-me businessmen impressing the ladies with wallets full of cash? Bottle of Crystal, waiter. £100? No worries; keep the change.

It's happened for years; I know folk who do it; done it myself on occasions. Yes, you can pay cash, sir. Thank you.

Pub it is then.....,

People in glass houses Mr MP. Only, don't forget your cheque book when the glazier comes to fix the damaged windows!!!

PS - I am not suggesting any impropriety with regards to Nonna's or its customers.