[boyfriday]

Originally Posted by JackLakeland

My cousin is a staff nurse and she's given up on a lot of the overseas nurses and carers. They are not of the same standard as the ones trained here. She said, "Its easier to do something myself than repeatedly have to explain what's needed"..

Standards in the NHS have dropped greatly. Overseas staff just aren't as good at the job...

Interesting reflection JackLakeland and I know it to be true in some instances as my mother was a nurse (an immigrant one incidentally) who reported similarly on the odd occasion before she retired.

But I think you have to balance that with the performance of our home grown nurses, she had a stock phrase for the young, degree qualified nurses (of all racial persuasions) who were intending to replace her-"they're clever enough, but can't boil a pan of water and run from bed baths"

[LeMaquis]

Originally Posted by JackLakeland

Standards in the NHS have dropped greatly. Overseas staff just aren't as good at the job...

Whereas that nice Mr Shipman.....

[boyfriday]

Originally Posted by LeMaquis

Whereas that nice Mr Shipman.....

..and let's not forget kind Nurse Allitt

[MrSmith]

Originally Posted by boyfriday

..and since labour is a major factor in production costs it's maintained our competitiveness, so without the free movement of labour into the UK employers would simply mobilise to areas where it's cheapest, Dyson cleaners being a notably recent example.

Why is that such a bad thing, why shouldn't we encourage business to invest in overseas economies that are less well off than ours?

[Halibut]

Originally Posted by retep

I have never or will be associated with any political party

You are in my head.

[boyfriday]

Originally Posted by MrSmith

Why is that such a bad thing, why shouldn't we encourage business to invest in overseas economies that are less well off than ours?

I thought you'd gone, welcome back to the fray!

Well I'm afraid you've lost me..I thought the argument was about protecting UK jobs for UK people? James Dyson decided to close his manufacturing base in the UK and relocate to Malaysia because he could secure the costs of production more cheaply.

This is the major weakness in any protectionist argument..if you're advocating jobs for Brits, then they have to be prepared to work for the same rate (or less) than those of our foreign competitors, otherwise firms will go bust, or just relocate elsewhere.

Ironically the switch in production location generated more profits for his company and an increase in his UK labour force...but not on the production line, but in the highly skilled research & development of new products.

[MrSmith]

Originally Posted by boyfriday

I thought you'd gone, welcome back to the fray!

Well I'm afraid you've lost me..I thought the argument was about protecting UK jobs for UK people? James Dyson decided to close his manufacturing base in the UK and relocate to Malaysia because he could secure the costs of production more cheaply.

This is the major weakness in any protectionist argument..if you're advocating jobs for Brits, then they have to be prepared to work for the same rate (or less) than those of our foreign competitors, otherwise firms will go bust, or just relocate elsewhere.

Ironically the switch in production location generated more profits for his company and an increase in his UK labour force...but not on the production line, but in the highly skilled research & development of new products.

No the discussion is about the 7% Increase in UK Population and whether the UK is full, which you managed to take well off topic.

So again why is it such a bad thing for our businesses to invest in manufacturing facilities overseas, surely it good for the country they set up in and will help to reduce our population.

[Mecky]

Originally Posted by PeteMorris

You can't get in those countries unless you have a particular skill that's in demand, and even then they're reluctant. We should follow that example instead of just letting people in here, cos we're part of the EU, or because it's not particularly a nice country they are coming from.

People lie you know

[retep]

Originally Posted by boyfriday

..and let's not forget kind Nurse Allitt

Or Dr. Ubani

[boyfriday]

Originally Posted by retep

Or Dr. Ubani

..absolutely, but he wasn't in dispute if you recall, the foreigners were already being slagged off.

[boyfriday]

Originally Posted by PeteMorris

You can't get in those countries unless you have a particular skill that's in demand, and even then they're reluctant. We should follow that example instead of just letting people in here, cos we're part of the EU, or because it's not particularly a nice country they are coming from.

LOL, where did you hear that? All of those countries have similar immigration policies to ours and certainly take refugees, even Australia that great immigration policy beacon of the far right, takes thousands of asylum seekers and is a co-signatory of the Refugee Convention!

[boyfriday]

Originally Posted by MrSmith

No the discussion is about the 7% Increase in UK Population and whether the UK is full, which you managed to take well off topic.

Since I only entered this thread to address comments made by yourself I think it went off topic long ago.

Originally Posted by MrSmith

So again why is it such a bad thing for our businesses to invest in manufacturing facilities overseas, surely it good for the country they set up in and will help to reduce our population.

I've never said it was a good or a bad thing.

[MrSmith]

Originally Posted by boyfriday

Since I only entered this thread to address comments made by yourself I think it went off topic long ago.
I've never said it was a good or a bad thing.

Immigration is the main reason the population has increased, so when I mentioned it, it was relevant, the fact that immigrants come here to work in the NHS is irrelevant to the topic.

Sorry about the second point, I wasn't implying you had said it was good or bad, you did comment that if companies didn't have immigrant labour to work for them, they would leave the country and set up else were, I just wanted to know if you considered that a bad idea and why. Personally I think transferring wealth to countries that are less wealthy than ours is a good thing.

[JackLakeland]

Originally Posted by boyfriday

..absolutely, but he wasn't in dispute if you recall, the foreigners were already being slagged off.

There's nothing wrong in slagging someone off, as you put it, if its justyfied. Whatever race they are.

[Mecky]

Originally Posted by MrSmith

Immigration is the main reason the population has increased, so when I mentioned it, it was relevant, the fact that immigrants come here to work in the NHS is irrelevant to the topic.

Sorry about the second point, I wasn't implying you had said it was good or bad, you did comment that if companies didn't have immigrant labour to work for them, they would leave the country and set up else were, I just wanted to know if you considered that a bad idea and why. Personally I think transferring wealth to countries that are less wealthy than ours is a good thing.

Why do you think that?

[MrSmith]

Originally Posted by Mecky

Why do you think that?

Why don't you think wealth shouldn't be equally distributed round the globe?





It appears from this topic that some people just want a cheap supply of foreign labour to exploit, as opposed to helping their country become more prosperous.
The good old days of the UK exploiting others is alive and kicking, good job slavery is abolished or some of you would have slaves wiping your arses.

[Mecky]

Originally Posted by MrSmith

Why don't you think wealth should be equally distributed round the globe?





It appears from this topic that some people just want a cheap supply of foreign labour to exploit, as opposed to helping their country become more prosperous.
The good old days of the UK exploiting others is alive and kicking, good job slavery is abolished or some of you would have slaves wiping your arses.

Which reply do you want?

1) I'll answer your question after you you answer mine

or

2) It doesn't matter which answer I give because you'll just disregard it anyway

[MrSmith]

Originally Posted by Mecky

Which reply do you want?

Don't worry about it, I didn't expect an answer.

[boyfriday]

Originally Posted by JackLakeland

There's nothing wrong in slagging someone off, as you put it, if its justyfied. Whatever race they are.

I didn't say there was.

[boyfriday]

Originally Posted by MrSmith

Immigration is the main reason the population has increased, so when I mentioned it, it was relevant, the fact that immigrants come here to work in the NHS is irrelevant to the topic.

But the reasons why the population increases is relevant, otherwise the question in the OP is plain daft. You may as well ask whether everyone should be sterilised to prevent the population increasing.

Originally Posted by MrSmith

Sorry about the second point, I wasn't implying you had said it was good or bad, you did comment that if companies didn't have immigrant labour to work for them, they would leave the country and set up else were, I just wanted to know if you considered that a bad idea and why. Personally I think transferring wealth to countries that are less wealthy than ours is a good thing.

I don't have a view on it, although the British people who become unemployed because of it might.