[Ryedo40]

I don't often start new threads but this needs to be brought to peoples attention:

Please join the Rationalist Association (UK) in condemning the misuse of Indian law by the Catholic Church to silence a campaigner against superstition. In March 2012, following his exposure of a supposed miracle at a Catholic Church in Mumbai as nothing more than the result of a leak, a complaint was lodged against Sanal Edamaruku by the local Catholic Archdiocese with the Mumbai police, who are now able to arrest him. He has been denied 'anticipatory' bail which means if arrested he faces a long term in prison merely for explaining the science behind an apparent mystery.

Please consider signing the petition here.


Articles about the above can be found at the links below:

1) Rationalist International
2) Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science
3) New Humanist
4) Youtube video of him exposing the alleged miracle

[Kerrangaroo]

Dig a bit deeper and it transpires that this whole episode is the work of a controversial tv channel (TV-9) openly anti gay and not above printing deliberate misquotes they invited the guy to Mumbai to stir trouble.

I wonder how much of this is to promote the Indian Rationalist Association (catchy abbreviation there chaps)?

[Annie Bynnol]

The Times of India says that Sanal Edamaruku is require for questioning under
Section 295 (defiling place of worship with intent to insult the religion of any class) by The Organisation of Concerned Catholics and the Catholic Secular Forum.
"Sanal had come to the city recently to investigate the issue of water dripping from a cross at Irla. Sanal, whose trip was sponsored by a TV channel, had said that the phenomenon was not a miracle and caused by capillary action."

I find no links between this man with the " catchy abbreviation..." IRA or "openly anti gay" and "printing deliberate misquotes".

[Kerrangaroo]

Originally Posted by Annie Bynnol

The Times of India says that Sanal Edamaruku is require for questioning under
Section 295 (defiling place of worship with intent to insult the religion of any class) by The Organisation of Concerned Catholics and the Catholic Secular Forum.
"Sanal had come to the city recently to investigate the issue of water dripping from a cross at Irla. Sanal, whose trip was sponsored by a TV channel, had said that the phenomenon was not a miracle and caused by capillary action."

I find no links between this man with the " catchy abbreviation..." IRA or "openly anti gay" and "printing deliberate misquotes".

There are no links with Sanal and the IRA i never suggested there were but there are links to TV-9's gay hunt.

http://www.queerty.com/why-is-this-i...sers-20110224/

[Kerrangaroo]

Here's a more detailed explanation of events.

http://http://mumbailaity.wordpress....was-a-miracle/

[Annie Bynnol]

Originally Posted by Kerrangaroo

Here's a more detailed explanation of events.

http://http://mumbailaity.wordpress....was-a-miracle/

The link is to a site "where catholics and in particular catholics of Mumbai, Thane and Navi Mumbai can air their views and read about catholic happenings worldwide."

There is no mention of a link between this man and the " catchy abbreviation..." IRA or "openly anti gay" and "printing deliberate misquotes" or "they invited the guy to Mumbai to stir trouble."

[Kerrangaroo]

Originally Posted by Annie Bynnol

The link is to a site "where catholics and in particular catholics of Mumbai, Thane and Navi Mumbai can air their views and read about catholic happenings worldwide."

There is no mention of a link between this man and the " catchy abbreviation..." IRA or "openly anti gay" and "printing deliberate misquotes" or "they invited the guy to Mumbai to stir trouble."

Where am i linking the man in question to anything?

[cgksheff]

A complaint was made.

No police action has been taken.

Man who profits from publicity gets worldwide coverage.

God bless the internet.

[janie48]

Originally Posted by Ryedo40

I don't often start new threads but this needs to be brought to peoples attention:

Please join the Rationalist Association (UK) in condemning the misuse of Indian law by the Catholic Church to silence a campaigner against superstition. In March 2012, following his exposure of a supposed miracle at a Catholic Church in Mumbai as nothing more than the result of a leak, a complaint was lodged against Sanal Edamaruku by the local Catholic Archdiocese with the Mumbai police, who are now able to arrest him. He has been denied 'anticipatory' bail which means if arrested he faces a long term in prison merely for explaining the science behind an apparent mystery.

Please consider signing the petition here.


Articles about the above can be found at the links below:

1) Rationalist International
2) Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science
3) New Humanist
4) Youtube video of him exposing the alleged miracle

Ryedo At first glance at your post,i was going to sign the petition,i don't believe in those kind of miracles,and thought it appalling that someone should be treated like that by the Catholic authorities (and i did examine your links) but then i searched for further details in the mainstream media and found nothing,only this article about Sanal Edamaruka in the Guardian>http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...india-sunshine

As you know i believe a lot of things but i am as sceptical about his claims as i am about the miracle.

[themetz]

...interesting

[Ryedo40]

Originally Posted by Kerrangaroo

There are no links with Sanal and the IRA i never suggested there were but there are links to TV-9's gay hunt.

Just because Sanal was invited to appear in on TV program featured on that channel, it doesn't mean he or the Indian Rationalist Association agrees with, or have control over, what goes on on that channel. Even implying so - and I'm not saying you are - would be like saying the Richard Dawkins foundation agrees with the creationist and anti-gay rubbish that's spewed on Fox news - it's ridiculous.

None of the above, or anything you've posted, alters the fact that Sanal may face imprisonment for exposing the truth behind an event that was being touted as a miracle.

[Ryedo40]

Originally Posted by janie48

Ryedo At first glance at your post,i was going to sign the petition,i don't believe in those kind of miracles,and thought it appalling that someone should be treated like that by the Catholic authorities (and i did examine your links) but then i searched for further details in the mainstream media and found nothing,only this article about Sanal Edamaruka in the Guardian>http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...india-sunshine

As you know i believe a lot of things but i am as sceptical about his claims as i am about the miracle.

Sanal Edamaruku is the author of that article. It's not about him. It's a sceptical article about a man named Prahlad Jani who claims he lives on sunshine instead of food - which is ridiculous.

The nearest I've come to anything mainstream is from The Times of India.

[Kerrangaroo]

Originally Posted by Ryedo40

Just because Sanal was invited to appear in on TV program featured on that channel, it doesn't mean he or the Indian Rationalist Association agrees with, or have control over, what goes on on that channel. Even implying so - and I'm not saying you are - would be like saying the Richard Dawkins foundation agrees with the creationist and anti-gay rubbish that's spewed on Fox news - it's ridiculous.

None of the above, or anything you've posted, alters the fact that Sanal may face imprisonment for exposing the truth behind an event that was being touted as a miracle.

But according to the Catholic church the announcement of a 'miracle' is not of their doing rather it has been the people who have chosen to believe that this is the case, in any event where's the harm?

[HeadingNorth]

Originally Posted by Kerrangaroo

But according to the Catholic church the announcement of a 'miracle' is not of their doing rather it has been the people who have chosen to believe that this is the case...

That being so, what complaint did they file?

[Ryedo40]

Originally Posted by Kerrangaroo

But according to the Catholic church the announcement of a 'miracle' is not of their doing rather it has been the people who have chosen to believe that this is the case, in any event where's the harm?

OK then. So Catholics had been touting it as a miracle and the Church didn't discourage the hundreds of people who were turning up on a daily basis to collect the "miracle" drain water that was dripping from the statues feet.

Where's the harm? Ignoring the potential health issues - it was drain water after all - it damages freedom of speech and expression. It creates an environment where people fear being punished for speaking out. That's damage enough.

[Kerrangaroo]

Originally Posted by Ryedo40

OK then. So Catholics had been touting it as a miracle and the Church didn't discourage the hundreds of people who were turning up on a daily basis to collect the "miracle" drain water that was dripping from the statues feet.

Where's the harm? Ignoring the potential health issues - it was drain water after all - it damages freedom of speech and expression. It creates an environment where people fear being punished for speaking out. That's damage enough.

All the church required was an apology from Sanal for quote:

With regards to visiting the site & the Cross, he had to prove only the statements made by him on air on 5th march to be TRUE – which are: The local priests do tricks to collect money & build Churches / Pope is into exorcism / the Church is against science / adverse comments on Catholicism, the material of the Cross, etc, among others. This was the sole reason for his visit. Even the panel discussion which followed on TV was an opportunity for him to make a public apology as any decent human being who erred would do.

[janie48]

Originally Posted by Ryedo40

Sanal Edamaruku is the author of that article. It's not about him. It's a sceptical article about a man named Prahlad Jani who claims he lives on sunshine instead of food - which is ridiculous.

The nearest I've come to anything mainstream is from The Times of India.

I apologise,i googled Sanal Edamuraku and got that article,i should have READ it properly.I blame the weak spectacles.

[Ryedo40]

Originally Posted by Kerrangaroo

All the church required was an apology from Sanal for quote:

With regards to visiting the site & the Cross, he had to prove only the statements made by him on air on 5th march to be TRUE – which are: The local priests do tricks to collect money & build Churches / Pope is into exorcism / the Church is against science / adverse comments on Catholicism, the material of the Cross, etc, among others. This was the sole reason for his visit. Even the panel discussion which followed on TV was an opportunity for him to make a public apology as any decent human being who erred would do.

Maybe some local priests do use methods like not discouraging "miracle" claims to attract followers and increase the Churches income. IMO, that's what was happening here.

Now from what I can gather from the discussion that took place, he was saying the Church was anti-science(mentioning Galileo). I'll also add to some extent the Catholic church is against scientific research - especially when it comes to things like stem-cell research.

IMO, some of what he has claimed can be backed up. No doubt he feels he can backup all of his claims. That's for him to do. Still, whether he backups his claims or not, it doesn't warrant his arrest or imprisonment.

[Ryedo40]

Originally Posted by Lexikia

Catholics, they a like a nasty cancer and should be out lawed.

I don't agree.

[Annie Bynnol]

Character assassination by association is a practice used to discredit the opinion of that person.

Linking phrases like .." catchy abbreviation..." (IRA) or "openly anti gay" and "printing deliberate misquotes" and "they invited the guy to Mumbai to stir trouble." with Sanal Edamaruku could be seen as attempting to influence opinion as to the integrity of his views.

I myself like to hear opinions of others and I would prefer that organizations and individuals did not use unfair practice to prevent this.

Opinion stating has to be within the law, in this case the law of India. If that opinion is unfounded then the law should take its course. If an organization is believed to be using the law unfairly then it is the right of individuals to express concern through democratic influence eg a petition.