redfox   10 #25 Posted February 28, 2017 CPS position (have regard to the date)  http://cps.gov.uk/news/latest_news/female_genital_mutilation_action_plan_launched/  It is a very serious criminal offence and should be afforded the appropriate level of resource and attention such offences warrant and I doubt anyone would disagree with that.  I couldn't care less who (sex/colour/religion/post code/political affiliation) the offender is Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Margarita Ma   10 #26 Posted February 28, 2017 That's really not what that tweet is saying is it? They are saying their main focus is on the child which is absolutely the right way forward. If the child would suffer more by bringing prosecutions then is that the right decision? None of have all the details just this one flippant tweet. In no way does it says that muslims are 'allowed to mutilate children' so please stop being so hyperbolic. However, I would have thought that bringing prosecutions for GBH against the ones who carry out the surgery and aiding and abetting charges for the parents would indeed be justified.  The only prosecution against a surgeon to have taken place so far failed. I am in favour of prosecuting the parents and the person carrying out the MUTILATION I will not call it surgery. The people doing this should be fined enough to take away any income they have from doing it. The greater good of female children should be considered here. Also a girl who has been mutilated in this way is highly likely to be forced into a marriage not of her choosing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #27 Posted February 28, 2017 CPS position (have regard to the date)  http://cps.gov.uk/news/latest_news/female_genital_mutilation_action_plan_launched/  It is a very serious criminal offence and should be afforded the appropriate level of resource and attention such offences warrant and I doubt anyone would disagree with that.  I couldn't care less who (sex/colour/religion/post code/political affiliation) the offender is  I'm very pleased it's classed as a very serious criminal offence (I'm assuming that's what it said in the link - I haven't read it) but.....  ---------- Post added 28-02-2017 at 22:02 ----------  The only prosecution against a surgeon to have taken place so far failed. I am in favour of prosecuting the parents and the person carrying out the MUTILATION I will not call it surgery. The people doing this should be fined enough to take away any income they have from doing it. The greater good of female children should be considered here. Also a girl who has been mutilated in this way is highly likely to be forced into a marriage not of her choosing.  .....if it is a serious criminal offence why have we, the UK, only tried to prosecute a cutter once and failed. As a country we should be ashamed. Is the rest of the world as **** as us at this or do other countries get things done? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
sgtkate   10 #28 Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) [/color] Not true. Mandatory reporting of female genital mutilation: procedural information https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mandatory-reporting-of-female-genital-mutilation-procedural-information   which bit is not true then ? The medic who performed the procedure picking the phone up part ?  It maybe explains why there have been so few prosecutions doesn't it ! If its so well known why have so few reports of it been made and prosecutions launched please?  Which I think is part of the question, that if medical staff are seeing the results of FGM (clearly the ones doing it aren't going to report themselves) down the road, say if the girl is brought into hospital for other reasons, then the medical staff have a duty to inform the police. If they are (which I suspect most probably do) then why aren't the police looking to make arrests? If they aren't reporting it, then why isn't more being done to prosecute the medical staff who aren't taking their legal responsibilities seriously enough?  My original post was simply saying that I'm sure WMP ARE taking FGM seriously, but sending people to jail isn't always the right answer regardless of the crime committed. If they are 'turning a blind' eye due to a lack of care of a some misplaced minority rights concerns then that is indeed horrendous and needs dealing with quickly. I am certain the vast majority of people in the UK find this practice abhorrent regardless of their ethnicity or religion and would be horrified to find the police not using their powers to the full because they are worried about upsetting someone.  ---------- Post added 01-03-2017 at 09:25 ----------  FGM is not a Muslm thing, it's a sub Saharan cultural practice and no where in the Quran does it say it should be done.  Mafya sadly many religions have pretty much hung up their texts and have gone rogue. If a large number of people with religion in common are doing something that they think is a part of their religion then surely it is a religious practice regardless of whether your religious text says to do it or not.  ---------- Post added 01-03-2017 at 09:26 ----------  The only prosecution against a surgeon to have taken place so far failed. I am in favour of prosecuting the parents and the person carrying out the MUTILATION I will not call it surgery. The people doing this should be fined enough to take away any income they have from doing it. The greater good of female children should be considered here. Also a girl who has been mutilated in this way is highly likely to be forced into a marriage not of her choosing.  Yes, fair point, it is indeed not surgery. I wasn't using that phrase to upset or belittle it. And yes on your second point about forced marriages.  I guess I look at things like this. If it can be demonstrated that some of the parents doing the FGM genuinely don't understand why it's a bad thing (it's possible, religion is unbelievable excellent at brainwashing) then isn't it better to educate as well as punish in some way? Then maybe the next generation grow up realising it's not ok rather than just being a crime? It's better to stop someone committing a crime because they believe it's the wrong thing to do rather than only not committing the crime out of fear of punishment.  So for me, the main target most definitely should be the ones doing the cutting. They damn well know and understand the consequences and do it regardless. They can, metaphorically, go hang. Edited March 1, 2017 by sgtkate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
redfox   10 #29 Posted March 1, 2017 I'm very pleased it's classed as a very serious criminal offence (I'm assuming that's what it said in the link - I haven't read it) but..... ---------- Post added 28-02-2017 at 22:02 ----------   .....if it is a serious criminal offence why have we, the UK, only tried to prosecute a cutter once and failed. As a country we should be ashamed. Is the rest of the world as **** as us at this or do other countries get things done?    TFH - my words were its a very serious offence - but I don't doubt that CPS take the same view.  As has been discussed after your post how is it there have been so few prosecutions ? We can speculate - lack of witnesses being the most obvious (the evidence as to it having occurred won't be in dispute although the reason why a procedure was conducted could be)  It is back alley stuff and those who suffer it are extremely unlikely to go to the police possibly for many years (possibly never) until they are out of the influence of those that subjected them to it in the first place.  It may be that as a result it has been thought education was to be something the police really pushed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
harvey19 Â Â 541 #30 Posted March 1, 2017 Where do the offences occur, here or abroad ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
sgtkate   10 #31 Posted March 1, 2017 Where do the offences occur, here or abroad ?  I doubt we can prosecute if it's done abroad before the family move here, but if they are living in the UK but travel abroad to have the mutilation done and then come back I'd like to think we can still prosecute, otherwise it simply gives a get out of jail free card. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
petemcewan   27 #32 Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) I wholeheartedly agree with prosecuting the parents and those who carry out this barbaric practice. In my opinion ,it is patriarchy- and the part that it plays in shaping cultural practices and beliefs in society- that gives rise to FGM.   As of today, more than 130 million girls and women worldwide are genitally mutilated. Female genital mutilation (FGM) exists primarily on the African continent (along and north of the equator), but the practice is also carried out elsewhere. Clitoridectomy was performed in medicine both in the United States and in Europe as late as in the 1950s. From a socioeconomic perspective FGM is understood as a practice that forms an important part of girls' socialization. FGM is practiced in societies where women's social acceptance and survival is secured through marriage and childbearing. Without FGM, the woman cannot get married, with the consequence that she has no status or access to resources. Her body practically becomes her only form of capital. From a psychosexual perspective FGM is interpreted as a practice that has been made possible in patriarchal societies where the sexuality of women has to be controlled and where unequal gender relationships are preserved. FGM is practiced by people from various religious denominations, among them Copts, Animists, Catholics, Protestants and Muslims, something that goes against the relatively common belief that FGM is practiced only among Muslims. The resistance to FGM found in countries where the practice is rife clearly demonstrates that patriarchal structures and what gets defined as "culture" are indeed possible to change and renegotiate.  Source:  "When modernity confronts traditional practices: female genital cutting in northeast Africa. NJ Kassamali - 1998 - popline.org " Edited March 1, 2017 by petemcewan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...