How voting against the EU has implications: TTIP?

It is election season, so let's begin by clarifying that this is about the last election, that for MEPs. In a massive anti-EU government vote this country voted in UKIP to ensure the national politicians knew how unhappy the populace was.

Unfortunately, this is now increasingly beginning to backfire, completely unbeknownst to the majority of British voters it is now beginning to look like Britain is the major force in trying to get the one component of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) through that a lot of people object against.

The TTIP on the whole is a positive thing, it takes away stupid barriers to trade between the EU and the US. But one particular clause in the current proposal could lead to far more than that - the conflict-resolution between nations and companies. In the format it currently exists as, a company like Microsoft could sue any EU country for not enforcing copyright laws on anybody who uses a cracked version.

Let me clarify that: If someone in Slough has a hacked copy of Office 2003 on his PC, Microsoft could hold the UK responsible for this and claim damages FROM the UK.

As the debate about the TTIP is raging across most EU countries, the UK is stoical as ever, unfortunately it is beginning to look like this stoicism is backfiring - UKIP, not only the biggest UK representative in the EU, but also the most stoic EU party in the world judging by their non-presence in any sort of sensible debate, is... unclear about the TTIP. In fact, they have so little opinion on it that they have no influence on it what so ever, in doing so the UK is the only of the 'big' member-states that is not radically against this clause, leaving the door open for it to be included through negotiated back-doors.

So, well done! You have made clear that the UK is annoyed with Europe, but when your government announces it has to pay 20 million pounds to Microsoft in some bizarre consumer law-case, don't tell me that I didn't warn you.

PS: One of the biggest threats in the TTIP to the UK is that the NHS should be open to privatisation under current rules. It is only the biggest topic for 30+% of the voters, so let us not worry about that, aye?

Maybe the question you should be asking is "Why has the BBC with it's mandate to 'Educate and Inform', stayed so studiously silent on the TTIP deal"??

Empires grow, become greedy and push for things that will benefit the richest. The EU is no different and will eventually fail. I don't understand why the left in this country are so fond of the EU, its everything they should hate.

TTIP could also result in cigarette manufacturers suing governments over plain packaging, pesticide makers suing over environmental laws and food producers suing over health laws.

Why should our government pay Microsoft anything?

Maybe the question you should be asking is "Why has the BBC with it's mandate to 'Educate and Inform', stayed so studiously silent on the TTIP deal"??

It's the exact same remit as that of every other EU Member State's elected representatives at the European Parliament, and they're doing their job...So, why can't UKIP MEPs (still)? (...not that we didn't warn you about this outcome before the election, like )

If you voted for a UKIP MEP, time to man up and assume your choice.

If you didn't vote for a UKIP MEP, why trying to deflect from their dereliction of duty?

Why should our government pay Microsoft anything?

Maybe the question you should be asking is "Why has the BBC with it's mandate to 'Educate and Inform', stayed so studiously silent on the TTIP deal"??

There is a degree of validity in what you say, we see programs like Panorama go 'inside the scandal of toffee eating in the workplace!!!' but the BBC is woefully ignorant about/ignoring the EU. I suspect it is the former, I have never seen anything by any BBC journalist with knowledge of the way the EU works.

Empires grow, become greedy and push for things that will benefit the richest. The EU is no different and will eventually fail. I don't understand why the left in this country are so fond of the EU, its everything they should hate.

Where does 'the left' come into it? in number of MEPs the 'right' has a far bigger proportion of representation in the EU parliament than 'the left', typical non-informed opinion of the anti-EU establishment. Criticise what you don't know, better still, burn it with fire!

TTIP could also result in cigarette manufacturers suing governments over plain packaging, pesticide makers suing over environmental laws and food producers suing over health laws.

Yes, there are countless negative possible outcomes that need to be squashed, so it would behoof the UK MEPs to get their fingers out of their ears and start doing some actual representing. It is easy to claim the EU is undemocratic if you keep voting in electors who are hellbent on not representing you.

It is election season, so let's begin by clarifying that this is about the last election, that for MEPs. In a massive anti-EU government vote this country voted in UKIP to ensure the national politicians knew how unhappy the populace was.

 

Unfortunately, this is now increasingly beginning to backfire, completely unbeknownst to the majority of British voters it is now beginning to look like Britain is the major force in trying to get the one component of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) through that a lot of people object against.

 

The TTIP on the whole is a positive thing, it takes away stupid barriers to trade between the EU and the US. But one particular clause in the current proposal could lead to far more than that - the conflict-resolution between nations and companies. In the format it currently exists as, a company like Microsoft could sue any EU country for not enforcing copyright laws on anybody who uses a cracked version.

 

Let me clarify that: If someone in Slough has a hacked copy of Office 2003 on his PC, Microsoft could hold the UK responsible for this and claim damages FROM the UK.

 

As the debate about the TTIP is raging across most EU countries, the UK is stoical as ever, unfortunately it is beginning to look like this stoicism is backfiring - UKIP, not only the biggest UK representative in the EU, but also the most stoic EU party in the world judging by their non-presence in any sort of sensible debate, is... unclear about the TTIP. In fact, they have so little opinion on it that they have no influence on it what so ever, in doing so the UK is the only of the 'big' member-states that is not radically against this clause, leaving the door open for it to be included through negotiated back-doors.

 

So, well done! You have made clear that the UK is annoyed with Europe, but when your government announces it has to pay 20 million pounds to Microsoft in some bizarre consumer law-case, don't tell me that I didn't warn you.

 

PS: One of the biggest threats in the TTIP to the UK is that the NHS should be open to privatisation under current rules. It is only the biggest topic for 30+% of the voters, so let us not worry about that, aye?

1) UKIP are opposing TTIP in the current form so NHS & other government departments may not be included.

2) My bold - what you have said there is highly illogical. What you have claimed is that all the other big EU states are radically against it, but Britain being the only one not radically opposing means it is getting through. What is illogical about your statement is it assumes something will get through despite fierce opposition from France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Poland etc etc, by simple fact Britain hasn't opposed it enough.

Since when did Britain and our MPs become king maker on such vital decisions? Let me tell you, our MEPs are vastly out numbered, even if all our UK MEPs voted unanimously against something as not being in the UK national interest, it doesn't make any difference because all the other states can back something which is enough to force it on us despite our opposition. The idea that the vast majority of states are against TTIP but Britain, or specifically UKIP (which is the real target or your ire), will be to blame for it getting through (even though they too oppose it), is laughable.

It is election season, so let's begin by clarifying that this is about the last election, that for MEPs. In a massive anti-EU government vote this country voted in UKIP to ensure the national politicians knew how unhappy the populace was.

 

Unfortunately, this is now increasingly beginning to backfire, completely unbeknownst to the majority of British voters it is now beginning to look like Britain is the major force in trying to get the one component of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) through that a lot of people object against.

 

The TTIP on the whole is a positive thing, it takes away stupid barriers to trade between the EU and the US. But one particular clause in the current proposal could lead to far more than that - the conflict-resolution between nations and companies. In the format it currently exists as, a company like Microsoft could sue any EU country for not enforcing copyright laws on anybody who uses a cracked version.

 

Let me clarify that: If someone in Slough has a hacked copy of Office 2003 on his PC, Microsoft could hold the UK responsible for this and claim damages FROM the UK.

 

As the debate about the TTIP is raging across most EU countries, the UK is stoical as ever, unfortunately it is beginning to look like this stoicism is backfiring - UKIP, not only the biggest UK representative in the EU, but also the most stoic EU party in the world judging by their non-presence in any sort of sensible debate, is... unclear about the TTIP. In fact, they have so little opinion on it that they have no influence on it what so ever, in doing so the UK is the only of the 'big' member-states that is not radically against this clause, leaving the door open for it to be included through negotiated back-doors.

 

So, well done! You have made clear that the UK is annoyed with Europe, but when your government announces it has to pay 20 million pounds to Microsoft in some bizarre consumer law-case, don't tell me that I didn't warn you.

 

PS: One of the biggest threats in the TTIP to the UK is that the NHS should be open to privatisation under current rules. It is only the biggest topic for 30+% of the voters, so let us not worry about that, aye?

If the TTIP is a deal between the EU and US, I don't see how it will affect the UK if we are no longer part of the EU.

There isn't anything the EU does for us that we couldn't do ourselves. It's ridiculous that decisions about this country are made by people overseas. As for Microsoft, tell them to take a running jump. What are they going to do? Bomb us?

[quote=tzijlstra;

As the debate about the TTIP is raging across most EU countries, the UK is stoical as ever, unfortunately it is beginning to look like this stoicism is backfiring - UKIP, not only the biggest UK representative in the EU, but also the most stoic EU party in the world judging by their non-presence in any sort of sensible debate, is... unclear about the TTIP. In fact, they have so little opinion on it that they have no influence on it what so ever,.

PS: One of the biggest threats in the TTIP to the UK is that the NHS should be open to privatisation under current rules. It is only the biggest topic for 30+% of the voters, so let us not worry about that, aye?

Most of your post is quite correct tzijlstra except for the bit I have not deleted!

UKIP are NOT unclear about TTIP and this was spelled out at the Conference last September. They are against it and one of the reasons is in your PS - the NHS.

I have repeated time and time again, on various pages, the dangers of TTIP which Labour and Tories are backing and have been discussing with the EU for a long time - but not telling the public! What does that tell you?

:)

---------- Post added 26-03-2015 at 12:49 ----------

Maybe the question you should be asking is "Why has the BBC with it's mandate to 'Educate and Inform', stayed so studiously silent on the TTIP deal"??

For the same reason mas Labour and the Tories - EU cash!

---------- Post added 26-03-2015 at 12:56 ----------

It's the exact same remit as that of every other EU Member State's elected representatives at the European Parliament, and they're doing their job...So, why can't UKIP MEPs (still)? (...not that we didn't warn you about this outcome before the election, like )

 

If you voted for a UKIP MEP, time to man up and assume your choice.

 

.

L00b - UKIP came out completely against TTIP at their Conference last September. Have no doubt it will be in their manifesto too when all of them come out.

On repeated occasions they (and me) and warned about the dangers of this TTIP. It's certainly not good for the UK but the EU and USA will benefit enormously.

1) UKIP are opposing TTIP in the current form so NHS & other government departments may not be included.

 

2) My bold - what you have said there is highly illogical. What you have claimed is that all the other big EU states are radically against it, but Britain being the only one not radically opposing means it is getting through. What is illogical about your statement is it assumes something will get through despite fierce opposition from France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Poland etc etc, by simple fact Britain hasn't opposed it enough.

 

Since when did Britain and our MPs become king maker on such vital decisions? Let me tell you, our MEPs are vastly out numbered, even if all our UK MEPs voted unanimously against something as not being in the UK national interest, it doesn't make any difference because all the other states can back something which is enough to force it on us despite our opposition. The idea that the vast majority of states are against TTIP but Britain, or specifically UKIP (which is the real target or your ire), will be to blame for it getting through (even though they too oppose it), is laughable.

UKIP are opposed? That is odd, because the UKIP spokesman for trade in October last year said he was for TTIP and privatisation of public services in the UK as a consequence of the arrangement.

Of course in the same month UKIP declared to be firmly against TTIP. The joy of a populist party in full action. So where do they stand on this? It is under review apparently. So whilst this is being discussed in the EU by practically everybody the biggest EU representation of the Brits are 'reviewing' their position on it. This is precisely the problem, it leaves the door open for other parties to 'review' their position whilst those that feel this should be resolved sooner rather than later are in a minority to do anything about it.

If you understand anything about politics you will know that issues like this need to be sorted, not left in a lurch, because someone somewhere is going to come up with a scheme to push whatever they want through, not being represented appropriately is lethal in those circumstances. The TTIP in its core is something we want, it will boost trade and secure important opportunities for business, but this particular clause is the hot iron and UKIP are choosing to let it fly around, damaging whatever it can. Carry on voting for a party that one day is for, the other day is against and then isn't so sure. It will do the UK the world of good.

---------- Post added 26-03-2015 at 12:57 ----------

UKIP are NOT unclear about TTIP and this was spelled out at the Conference last September. They are against it and one of the reasons is in your PS - the NHS.

The last official communication on the topic that I can find - we are against it, but we are reviewing our position.