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10-10-2009, 22:42   #21
Aim4
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The EU has controlled our immigration since 1997
The Amsterdam Treaty handed complete control of our immigration to the EU. The EU increased the numbers of immigrants from 30,000 a year to 200,000 a year. That's why house prices had been screaming up. Politicians and huge corporations like immigration-with thousands of immigrants available on low pay, corporations can impose the minimum wage on millions. Politicians then lie that they can't get British workers to do dirty jobs. The truth is they won't offer a decent wage to compensate for unpleasant work, and instead use immigrants at £5-odd an hour.

Michael Howard was lying on the 24th January 2005 when he said he'd fix immigration-if he had become Prime Minister, he'd have had no control over it whatsoever.

Immigration hurts our existing immigrants first-new immigrants move into their areas, decreasing the wages and increasing the pressure on housing.

Last edited by Aim4; 10-10-2009 at 22:46.
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10-10-2009, 22:44   #22
retep
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Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
Aside from the deception element of that, which is a a fabrication
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Mo...European_ideal

I can't see any real problem with a united States of Europe. Indeed it has a lot going for it. It hasn't done our former colony the other side of the Atlantic much harm.

Where there is an issue with the EU is in the EU's anti-worker agenda best exemplified by examples like the rulings on Viking, Laval and its directives encouraging privatisations.

http://www.etuc.org/a/4627?var_recherche=viking
Here's what they thought of it,

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/712

"It is worth recalling that what is now known as the European Union was originally sold to the unsuspecting peoples of Europe as a “Common Market” that would not threaten the independence of the member nations. This decades-long transformation from a supposed free-trade agreement to a supranational government, a process still underway, was by design. But the architects of a new European order had to mask their subversive schemes in order to succeed. As Christopher Booker and Richard North wrote in their recent book The Great Deception, from the beginning EU founder Jean Monnet “used a front-man to preside over the negotiations — Belgian politician Paul Henri-Spaak, one of his closest allies, who ensured that all mentions of political union were suppressed, selling the treaty to the world as no more than a deal to promote trade and prosperity.” Booker and North explained that the subterfuge was backed and financed behind the scenes by the U.S. government, which had Undersecretary of State George Ball lobby the British prime minister in the early 1960s to retain sovereignty-destroying precedents in pending European Union agreements. Ball told then-British Prime Minister Harold Macmillan “that the Rome treaty [of 1957] was not merely a static document but a process leading towards political unification.”
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10-10-2009, 22:50   #23
The Belly
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Originally Posted by Phanerothyme View Post
I'm not the slightest bit interested, as it's all part of the inevitable and gradual death of the nation state, I merely wished to point out that your assertion:

"your guess is as good as mine"

is incorrect.
?????? Where did I say "your guess is as good as mine?" If you are not interested in a subject which you obviously know nothing about, why do you enter it?
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11-10-2009, 00:42   #24
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?????? Where did I say "your guess is as good as mine?"
Here
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Belly View Post
... has got us to date so far and when Blair gives the nod to Turkey, well? your guess is as good as mine.
Quote:
If you are not interested in a subject which you obviously know nothing about, why do you enter it?
Because I felt like it.

Good grief, am I now restricted to posting only on topics I have an interest in?

By you?

Thought not.

Incidentally, do you think the Czech Republic will ratify, or will their Supreme Court decide against it?
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11-10-2009, 00:57   #25
hockers666
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NEW WORLD ORDER just around the corner one government,one army,one set of laws, according to some on SF thats ok, not for me we are told what to do already by some pipe smoking idiots in brussels . we can,t have curved cucumber ,we can,t sell our goods in pounds now kilos ,where will it end being told what to do by zee germans?(who started and lost two world wars its bad enough keeping their queen and her greek husband )xxx
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11-10-2009, 03:11   #26
Wildcat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retep View Post
Here's what they thought of it,

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/712

......
Why do you think I would care what the John Birch society would say? They don't represent US opinion the way you present them as doing. They represent an extreme right wing group, that opposed and oppose the civil rights movement and advocate the US leaving the UN.

They are even included here in a listing of hate groups that advocate or adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intel...e.jsp?aid=1024

Their views on the EU are not really of much interest and certainly aren't representative of US opinion the way you have presented them to be.
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Last edited by Wildcat; 11-10-2009 at 03:21.
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11-10-2009, 10:42   #27
retep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
Why do you think I would care what the John Birch society would say? They don't represent US opinion the way you present them as doing. They represent an extreme right wing group, that opposed and oppose the civil rights movement and advocate the US leaving the UN.

They are even included here in a listing of hate groups that advocate or adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intel...e.jsp?aid=1024

Their views on the EU are not really of much interest and certainly aren't representative of US opinion the way you have presented them to be.
Why would you think I would care about what you think, youre a loon, look in the mirror if you don't believe me.

Do a bit more googling I'm sure you'll come up with something a little less right wing that says the same as the John Birch society,

And from your link to the sphincter. org list
"Listing here does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activities, or are racist. "

Sort of pees on your theory of hate group list.

Now if you want a link to violent trouble makers look no further, try this one,
http://www.uaf.org.uk/aboutUAF.asp?choice=1
They even attack the police.

"At one point, earlier on, when it became extremely tense, members of the UAF tried to break the police line between the two groups, which in turn angered the EDL members"
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11-10-2009, 11:18   #28
wednesday1
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Originally Posted by retep View Post
Why would you think I would care about what you think, youre a loon, look in the mirror if you don't believe me.

Do a bit more googling I'm sure you'll come up with something a little less right wing that says the same as the John Birch society,

And from your link to the sphincter. org list
"Listing here does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activities, or are racist. "

Sort of pees on your theory of hate group list.

Now if you want a link to violent trouble makers look no further, try this one,
http://www.uaf.org.uk/aboutUAF.asp?choice=1
They even attack the police.


"At one point, earlier on, when it became extremely tense, members of the UAF tried to break the police line between the two groups, which in turn angered the EDL members"
Retep you are deranged. Providng links to the John Birch society and trying to claim that their views are in some way representative of mainstream opinion, is rather like a Yank claiming that the views of the neo nazi BNP are representative of mainstream British opinion. and I'm afraid to say if anyone's a loon then you without a shadow of doubt are it!

Last edited by wednesday1; 11-10-2009 at 11:23.
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11-10-2009, 14:17   #29
retep
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Originally Posted by wednesday1 View Post
Retep you are deranged. Providng links to the John Birch society and trying to claim that their views are in some way representative of mainstream opinion, is rather like a Yank claiming that the views of the neo nazi BNP are representative of mainstream British opinion. and I'm afraid to say if anyone's a loon then you without a shadow of doubt are it!


Looks like i've hooked another one, the loons are coming thick and fast, I'll chuck this one back it's not quite developed, still in the egg stage.
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11-10-2009, 16:12   #30
Wildcat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retep View Post
Why would you think I would care about what you think, youre a loon, look in the mirror if you don't believe me.

Do a bit more googling I'm sure you'll come up with something a little less right wing that says the same as the John Birch society,

And from your link to the sphincter. org list
"Listing here does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activities, or are racist. "

Sort of pees on your theory of hate group list.

Now if you want a link to violent trouble makers look no further, try this one,
http://www.uaf.org.uk/aboutUAF.asp?choice=1
They even attack the police.

"At one point, earlier on, when it became extremely tense, members of the UAF tried to break the police line between the two groups, which in turn angered the EDL members"
So to back up your claims that the John Birch society's views on the EU is representative of US opinion, you are asking me to use google

And to distract from being caught out misleading along with a load of insults you bring in UAF to try to distract from the issue.

Priceless.
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11-10-2009, 16:40   #31
retep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
So to back up your claims that the John Birch society's views on the EU is representative of US opinion, you are asking me to use google

And to distract from being caught out misleading along with a load of insults you bring in UAF to try to distract from the issue.

Priceless.
I've made no claims about the John Birch society, but you have, I just put it as a example of what the US think, I'm sure with your googling skills you can find alternatives that state the same.
The UAF need no effort they are an insult in themselves.

Can you point out where i was misleading, or are you just chucking that in to mislead.
I can see how you describe your effort as priceless you do seem absurd.
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11-10-2009, 17:48   #32
Wildcat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retep View Post
I've made no claims about the John Birch society, but you have,
In the context you put them forward as representative of US opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by retep View Post
I just put it as a example of what the US think,
It isn't however an example of what the US thinks. It is an example of what one small section of right wing loonies in the US thinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by retep View Post
I'm sure with your googling skills you can find alternatives that state the same.
Why would I want to? If I can find the KKK saying the same thing it wouldn't make any difference to my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by retep View Post
The UAF need no effort they are an insult in themselves.
Back to the irrelevant distraction, you can't help but bring it up when ever you are lsoing a debate can you? You think they make your beloved BNP look good. They don't. The BNP look bad themselves.

The BNP leadership blaming Zionists (read Jews) for EDL:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/a...onists-for-EDL

Their representatives friends supporting terrorist groups like C-18:
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/10/...riends-wisely/

Or their legal advisor referencing the Hitler society and holocaust denial websites along with his own peculiar lunacy?:
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/10/...ormation-from/

All make them look pretty stupid themselves which is why their vote is in decline:
http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/200...unting-of.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by retep View Post
Can you point out where i was misleading, or are you just chucking that in to mislead.
I can see how you describe your effort as priceless you do seem absurd.
This is the sequence of events. I said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
I can't see any real problem with a united States of Europe. Indeed it has a lot going for it. It hasn't done our former colony the other side of the Atlantic much harm.
Which you responded to with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by retep View Post
"They" in context can only be taken to mean the US people.

You were therefore being misleading substituting the views of an exteme right wing organisation that thinks the US should leave the UN, with US public opinion.
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Last edited by Wildcat; 11-10-2009 at 17:52.
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11-10-2009, 17:52   #33
retep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
In the context you put them forward as representative of US opinion.



If that is what you think you need to do some more grammar studying.



No.



Back to the irrelevant distraction, you can't help but bring it up when ever you are lsoing a debate can you because you think they make your beloved BNP look good.

They don't. The BNP look bad themselves.

The BNP leadership blaming Zionists (read Jews) for EDL:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/a...onists-for-EDL

Their representatives friends supporting terrorist groups like C-18:
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/10/...riends-wisely/

Or their legal advisor referencing the Hitler society and holocaust denial websites along with his own peculiar lunacy?:
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/10/...ormation-from/

All make them look pretty stupid themselves which is why their vote is in decline:
http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/200...unting-of.html



This is the sequence of events. I said this:



Which you responded to with this:



"They" in context can only be taken to mean the US people.

You were therefore being misleading substituting the views of an exteme right wing organisation that thinks the US should leave the UN, with US public opinion.
No need to try and cover your cr ap with numerous googles just admit you were wrong.
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11-10-2009, 17:54   #34
Wildcat
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No need to try and cover your cr ap with numerous googles just admit you were wrong.
Denial. Is that a tactic you have learnt from Nick Griffin?
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11-10-2009, 18:02   #35
retep
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Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
Denial. Is that a tactic you have learnt from Nick Griffin?
Here you go try a denounce this one,
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Europe/hl983.cfm

Unlike you I have no political party to follow, nor do I advocate violence on the streets as you and your beloved UAF do.
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11-10-2009, 18:23   #36
Wildcat
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Here you go try a denounce this one,
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Europe/hl983.cfm

Unlike you I have no political party to follow, nor do I advocate violence on the streets as you and your beloved UAF do.
Despite the articles length and criticisms of the EU no where does it back up the claim you originally provided that the EU is a product of designed deception.

You are now moving the goal posts.

I have consistently said I don't support any party so you are now resorting to lieing about me, along with compounding your attack on UAF with an unsubstantiated statement. Perhaps you can provide a link to a representative of UAF advocating violence? Except you can't otherwise you will have done so before. Instead you will no doubt respond with some examples of crowd behaviour at a UAF demo, very good but it doesn't actually substantiate what you have said. Nor does it justify you sidetracking the debate because I have pointed out you are misrepresenting your sources to make an illegitimate point.
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11-10-2009, 20:00   #37
retep
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Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
Despite the articles length and criticisms of the EU no where does it back up the claim you originally provided that the EU is a product of designed deception.

You are now moving the goal posts.

I have consistently said I don't support any party so you are now resorting to lieing about me, along with compounding your attack on UAF with an unsubstantiated statement. Perhaps you can provide a link to a representative of UAF advocating violence? Except you can't otherwise you will have done so before. Instead you will no doubt respond with some examples of crowd behaviour at a UAF demo, very good but it doesn't actually substantiate what you have said. Nor does it justify you sidetracking the debate because I have pointed out you are misrepresenting your sources to make an illegitimate point.
So now you are trying to turn it into an argument, just admit your wrong, you are the one who brought political parties into the fore with your slur

"You think they make your beloved BNP look good"

You moved the goalposts with your first answer to my post, now youre just wriggling, and i'm laughing at you, as usual, want to borrow a shovel.

Now was that a UAF thug who was being restrained on the floor by the police at the Manchester protest.
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11-10-2009, 20:01   #38
Phanerothyme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retep View Post
So now you are trying to turn it into an argument, just admit your wrong, you are the one who brought political parties into the fore with your slur

"You think they make your beloved BNP look good"

You moved the goalposts with your first answer to my post, now youre just wriggling, and i'm laughing at you, as usual, want to borrow a shovel.

Now was that a UAF thug who was being restrained on the floor by the police at the Manchester protest.
reptep dude, you're spluttering!
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11-10-2009, 20:37   #39
Wildcat
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So now you are trying to turn it into an argument, just admit your wrong, you are the one who brought political parties into the fore with your slur

"You think they make your beloved BNP look good"
'They' being UAF, that you introduced. If you are going to try to sidestep an issue bringing UAF in to it, expect me to mention the BNP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by retep View Post
You moved the goalposts with your first answer to my post, now youre just wriggling, and i'm laughing at you, as usual, want to borrow a shovel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by retep View Post
Now was that a UAF thug who was being restrained on the floor by the police at the Manchester protest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGiL-LpYyVA

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11-10-2009, 21:09   #40
retep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
'They' being UAF, that you introduced. If you are going to try to sidestep an issue bringing UAF in to it, expect me to mention the BNP.







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGiL-LpYyVA

Tying to hide the UAF thugs under a BNP blanket wont wash, here you go 35 seconds in,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/8300431.stm

I'm still laughing, your attempts at googling are getting frantic.
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