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Campaign grows to switch the building of HS2 station to Sheffield city

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22-07-2017, 14:01   #1221
Phili Buster
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Originally Posted by ihpb View Post
Train stations are an ancient way of transfer. The modern way will be syncing parallel trains to transfer passengers onto the fast moving carriages then the transfer station train slowing to stop at the next of two connected stations then back along the same line in the opposite direction to transfer onto the none stop fast train in the opposite direction.
Train station Hah!
Perhaps they could use a system, for picking up / dropping off passengers, similar to the method previously used to pick up and drop off mail bags used by Mail Trains. That way there should not be a need to slow and stop for passengers to board / alight at stations. There is the possibility for many more such 'transfer' locations than stations and at much less cost than building special stations for HS2 trains.

I admit there may be a couple of slight problems but nothing that the experts should be able to quickly sort out
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22-07-2017, 14:45   #1222
tinfoilhat
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Originally Posted by Annie Bynnol View Post
No matter how many posts are made SCC nothing to do with a Midland station option or being moved from Meadowhall.
billion pound saving is the motivator.
Has any other station or part of the route got messed about in the same way as Sheffield has? Did every other area go "awesome, let's do it" or did they ask for the impossible?
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Last edited by tinfoilhat; 22-07-2017 at 14:49.
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22-07-2017, 15:11   #1223
Annie Bynnol
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Originally Posted by tinfoilhat View Post
Has any other station or part of the route got messed about in the same way as Sheffield has? Did every other area go "awesome, let's do it" or did they ask for the impossible?
Of course:
Stoke on Trent
Nottingham
Derby
Leicester
All wanted changes to the route-non were considered seriously- all rejected on cost, like Sheffield.
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22-07-2017, 17:17   #1224
Hopman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phili Buster View Post
Perhaps they could use a system, for picking up / dropping off passengers, similar to the method previously used to pick up and drop off mail bags used by Mail Trains. That way there should not be a need to slow and stop for passengers to board / alight at stations. There is the possibility for many more such 'transfer' locations than stations and at much less cost than building special stations for HS2 trains.

I admit there may be a couple of slight problems but nothing that the experts should be able to quickly sort out
This seems a good idea for collecting passengers, but there would have to be some point where capacity for putting passengers on to the train would make it easier to stop at he station. In addition, should a large number of passengers be picked up and piled into a coach, there would need to be some sort of padding to soften the landing. Have you considered what might happen if one of those passengers is in a wheelchair? Wouldn't there be a danger if the next passenger landed on the wheelchair?

I fail to see just how passengers could be dropped off the train. Remember that we'd be talking about a speeding train and having people hanging out of the carriage might be dangerous, not only in the case of people hanging from a moving train, but there's also the problem of people crashing into trackside obstructions like trees, signal gantries etc.

I fail to see how a large number of disembarking passengers could be allowed to hang out of the train. You'd need special carriages with the capacity to disembark at speed. What it would cost in terms of extra staff for hanging the disembarking passengers outside the train hasn't been considered.
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22-07-2017, 21:18   #1225
abbeyedges
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie Bynnol View Post
Of course:
Stoke on Trent
Nottingham
Derby
Leicester
All wanted changes to the route-non were considered seriously- all rejected on cost, like Sheffield.
So we are now in the same league as those particular cities (no disrespect to any of them) rather than competing with the Birminghams, Manchesters and Leeds of this world.

In my opinion this decision is a huge public relations disaster for the city.
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22-07-2017, 22:02   #1226
Arthur Ritus
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Your ideas have made me think, the biggest problem for railway energy usage (apart from aircon. and heating of the carriages) is acceleration and de-acceleration.

I understand putting electrification under bridges and through tunnels for all that length is a big issue (the third tunnel through woodhead for example) so why not put electrification just at either end of the Stations.

A side note at this point if you are already thinking this is daft, Rotherham council were once looking at a tram system of their own which spun a big flywheel on the tram at every stop, the momentum of which carried it to the next stop - same as those toy cars we used to have (before batteries went into everything) not so crazy now heh.

Using the hybrid trains the "green electricity" produced from flatulence or whatever would be doing most of the work getting up to speed with the diesel generator just maintaining where putting up ugly pylons upset the dictating minority.

Correct me if i am wrong but at the present there is no regenerative braking even on the electrical powered trains, it just warms up some resistors on the roof? (appreciated by the local tree penguins - warms their feet in winter). Perhaps overhead cables coming into stations could be used to dump some regen. back into the grid.

Failing that a big spring at the front (if not too expensive we could have one at the rear too), the previous train waits for the next one to hit it launching it down the track, i call this the Newton Accelerating Force system, or NAF system for short.
Will also improve crash situations, and will eliminate the passenger use of the w.c. at stations. Seatbelts may be required.
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22-07-2017, 22:15   #1227
rogets
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40 miles to Manchester takes about 1 hour from Sheffield

So a woeful 40 MPH to link to major cities

If it was 100mph then Sheffield and Manchester could be linked in around 25 mins

Same with Leeds, 25 mins to Leeds from Sheffield, rather than 45 mins on the express train

Just improve current train lines
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22-07-2017, 22:18   #1228
Annie Bynnol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopman View Post
...
I fail to see just how passengers could be dropped off the train. Remember that we'd be talking about a speeding train and having people hanging out of the carriage might be dangerous, not only in the case of people hanging from a moving train, but there's also the problem of people crashing into trackside obstructions like trees, signal gantries etc.....
Slip coaches were used for a hundred years @2' 20".
In the modern world the slip coach would be still attached by bungee so that after it stopped at the station it would "twang" back and catch up with the train.

Last edited by Annie Bynnol; 22-07-2017 at 22:23.
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22-07-2017, 23:11   #1229
busdriver1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Ritus View Post

A side note at this point if you are already thinking this is daft, Rotherham council were once looking at a tram system of their own which spun a big flywheel on the tram at every stop, the momentum of which carried it to the next stop - same as those toy cars we used to have (before batteries went into everything) not so crazy now heh.
A system like that has been trialled on buses, with limited success. The flywheel was charged up on braking and then the energy was used to boost the bus away from the stop so it can be done.
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22-07-2017, 23:38   #1230
Cyclone
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That's just a variation of the kers system that F1 cars use.

---------- Post added 22-07-2017 at 23:39 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogets View Post
40 miles to Manchester takes about 1 hour from Sheffield

So a woeful 40 MPH to link to major cities

If it was 100mph then Sheffield and Manchester could be linked in around 25 mins

Same with Leeds, 25 mins to Leeds from Sheffield, rather than 45 mins on the express train

Just improve current train lines
Capacity is the issue, not speed.
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Yesterday, 16:26   #1231
ANGELFIRE1
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More good news concerning the cost of this vanity project. Michael Byng, rail expert and the man responsible for devising the way in which Network Rail costs its projects has said the 55 billion cost budget, is ludicrously off the mark. His estimate comes in at 104 billion.

Who do you believe.

Angel1
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Yesterday, 16:44   #1232
xsf7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANGELFIRE1 View Post
More good news concerning the cost of this vanity project. Michael Byng, rail expert and the man responsible for devising the way in which Network Rail costs its projects has said the 55 billion cost budget, is ludicrously off the mark. His estimate comes in at 104 billion.

Who do you believe.

Angel1
The latest proposals are simply a PR exercise to make it look like the government are planning to invest significantly in infrastructure in the north.

There are four phases for HS2, the first to Birmingham, then onto Manchester, a third through the east Midlands to Leeds and the booby-prize of a loop to Sheffield. As phase one progresses they will discover the costs are much higher than they expected (who knew?) And there will be a review of the whole scheme at which point they will decide they can't possibly afford phase three, let alone phase four and the link to Manchester may be scrapped too.

Look at Edinburgh Trams.
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Yesterday, 18:01   #1233
Phili Buster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie Bynnol View Post
Slip coaches were used for a hundred years @2' 20".
In the modern world the slip coach would be still attached by bungee so that after it stopped at the station it would "twang" back and catch up with the train.

Hey, wow, I like that idea but you still need the station to offload the passengers

My idea, in theory and as I said possibly (!?!?) with a few slight problems, could have many locations for picking up and dropping off passengers. Even your own garden gate if your home backs onto the railway. Following your video link, I also found a video see from about 5:05, amazing that it is on the old LMS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WO7JxYlhOM

So, with your pole and net set up at the side of the track, use your phone app to request a pick-up or drop-off (just like uber), climb in your sack and . . .
Just one thing by the way, I know I put forward the idea but in no way do I want to use the method for boarding or leaving a train

Last edited by Phili Buster; Yesterday at 18:05.
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