The consequence thread (Brexit)

......, want it all to go to the EU,

but it doesn't all go to the EU and stay there. around half of it either doesn't go or comes back in one form or another

so don't understand what their argument is other than to just point out that Brexiters made a statement that was at best weasel words (Agreed) and at worst an outright lie.

is there anything wrong with that?

If the Brexiters spent a tenth of this money the NHS after leaving it would still have more money than if we remained.

not necessarily, anything more than a transient slow down in the economy means less money available to the government to spend on the NHS. While the previous government took steps to try and protect the NHS budget that cant go on forever and so real, possibly severe, reductions in the overall amount spent on the nhs would have to occur.

those of us who voted to remain did so for many reasons but most understood that leaving the EU and single market would cause more than a transient slow down in the economy and no amount of "free trade" deal done with other countries would change that.

---------- Post added 29-08-2016 at 12:43 ----------

As an aside, free trade deals like the almost defunct ttip seem to be losing their appeal

both us presidential candidates seem opposed to ttip and an equivalent one between america and pacific countries. mr trump, the brexiters poster boy, seems to want to leave the ones the us are already in.

so where does this leave the brexiters strategy?

which, the EU or the NHS? Sorry, people go on about this £350m / week but obviously if remainers don't want the NHS to have a penny of it, want it all to go to the EU, so don't understand what their argument is other than to just point out that Brexiters made a statement that was at best weasel words (Agreed) and at worst an outright lie. If the Brexiters spent a tenth of this money the NHS after leaving it would still have more money than if we remained. Sorry, still not seen anything which effectively counters this argument but irrelevant as many have already said cos we won't be leaving anyway.

Problem is precisely the opposite to the 'suggestion' has happened.

Instead of having more money for the NHS in the post-Brexit world, we are being told we are going to have less....

Not going to be forgotten. A few years down the line people could be pretty mad about it, including some of those who voted for Brexit.

Another potential consequence of Brexit, is the potential for the Government to abandon its own pledge for a 'living wage' of around £9.00 per hour by 2020.

The British Chambers of Commerce said that because of Brexit the new rate is unaffordable

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/08/27/unaffordable-minimum-wage-plan-needs-brexit-rethink-says-bcc/

Though to be fair I'd be more shocked if the BCC didn't think of another reason why the 'living wage' shouldn't be increased.

Remainers admitting they were wrong, who'd have thought it,

"Brexit voters are NOT racist': Leading Remainers finally admit they were WRONG on immigration and 'ducked the debate' during the referendum"

"Writing in The Sunday Times, the MPs said: ‘June 23 was a moment of change. The strength of feeling is clear. Free movement of people cannot continue as it has done. It has to be reformed."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3763156/Brexit-voters-NOT-racist-Leading-Remainers-finally-admit-WRONG-immigration-ducked-debate-referendum.html#ixzz4IkD7Jn3u

 

"Brexit voters are NOT racist':

i don't think anyone has said all of them were

Remainers admitting they were wrong, who'd have thought it,

 

"Brexit voters are NOT racist': Leading Remainers finally admit they were WRONG on immigration and 'ducked the debate' during the referendum"

 

 

 

"Writing in The Sunday Times, the MPs said: ‘June 23 was a moment of change. The strength of feeling is clear. Free movement of people cannot continue as it has done. It has to be reformed."

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3763156/Brexit-voters-NOT-racist-Leading-Remainers-finally-admit-WRONG-immigration-ducked-debate-referendum.html#ixzz4IkD7Jn3u

Writing in The Sunday Times, the MPs said: ‘June 23 was a moment of change. The strength of feeling is clear. Free movement of people cannot continue as it has done. It has to be reformed.

‘This was not an expression of prejudice but rather a desire for managed migration and concern that rapid immigration can put pressure on public services and local communities.

For too long, we have ducked an open debate over immigration. That was true in the referendum campaign but it is also true of all major political parties over the last decade or more

Remain MPs in letter to Sunday Times

‘Britain must be open to talent, but with more ability to act if excessive competition in labour markets hurts our economy.’

They admitted: ‘For too long, we have ducked an open debate over immigration. That was true in the referendum campaign but it is also true of all major political parties over the last decade or more.’

 

Despite the Dailyhate claiming that they've admitted they were wrong. If you look at what they said, they don't appear to have admitted that at all.

You just want it to go away don't you.

 

It isn't going to.

 

---------- Post added 29-08-2016 at 10:32 ----------

 

 

It was a lie not a suggestion.

 

The £350m figure was debunked immediately but stayed on the bus.....

To be fair technically the message on the bus 'We send £350m a week to the EU, let's fund the NHS instead' (or something like that) wasn't actually a lie, it was just misleading.

It was true that we send £350m a week to the EU, but we get some of that back. It is probably also true that leavers want to fund the NHS with some of the money instead.

If it was an outright lie I don't think it would have been allowed on the bus.

The message behind BoJo the clown in the first picture in the link actually states:

Let's give our NHS the £350 million the EU takes every week.

Which is a far more unambiguous statement than: "I think it would be a very good idea if we give our NHS some of the £350 million a week that we give to the EU, on top of the £2.2 billion a week that we give to the NHS.".

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-keep-sharing-this-photo-of-boris-johnson-for-some-reason--WkWJsa0jJrW

The message behind BoJo the clown in the first picture in the link actually states:

 

Let's give our NHS the £350 million the EU takes every week.

 

Which is a far more unambiguous statement than: "I think it would be a very good idea if we give our NHS some of the £350 million a week that we give to the EU, on top of the £2.2 billion a week that we give to the NHS.".

 

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-keep-sharing-this-photo-of-boris-johnson-for-some-reason--WkWJsa0jJrW

I'm not saying that that wasn't a lie. The post I was replying to was questioning why the message on the bus remained.

The message on the bus technically wasn't a lie and so was allowed to remain.

I'm not claiming than neither side lied during the referendum campaign.

And lets not forget the TV advert where you take you're mam to hospital post brexit, and you're in and out in no time, but without brexit you're waiting in the rammed waiting room all day.

you going to tell me that wasn't true either?

Naaa, not having it, it will happen when we brexit because they said it will.

To be fair technically the message on the bus 'We send £350m a week to the EU, let's fund the NHS instead' (or something like that) wasn't actually a lie, it was just misleading.

 

It was true that we send £350m a week to the EU, but we get some of that back. It is probably also true that leavers want to fund the NHS with some of the money instead.

 

If it was an outright lie I don't think it would have been allowed on the bus.

Actually that wasn't/isn't true

---------- Post added 29-08-2016 at 21:59 ----------

I'm not saying that that wasn't a lie. The post I was replying to was questioning why the message on the bus remained.

 

The message on the bus technically wasn't a lie and so was allowed to remain.

 

I'm not claiming than neither side lied during the referendum campaign.

Curiously although perhaps not unexpectedly the chief protagonists (liars) on both sides were all from the Tory party. After all it was a referendum designed by Cameron to silence the Tory right and put the EU issue to bed for the remainder of his term in office.

It seems that they are split now over what the plan should be for single market access. Good news in a way because it shows somebody is thinking about planning at last. The cabinet is meeting on Wednesday, I guess for Theresa May to tell them how it's going to be and that is going to be what the Tory bigwigs and the city want.

My money is on a EEA style arrangement or something similar that provides the city with full passporting for its services to the EU. Davis and Fox aren't going to like it if it is true.

i don't think anyone has said all of them were

Although if you read the comments on the BBC or God forbid yahoo you'd be forgiven if you thought otherwise.