Islam and English law..

I didn't say that a ban justifies any terrorist attack so don't put words into my mouth,

Your indiscriminate one-liners and smilies don't leave any choice.

 

Develop your arguments instead of sniping/sniding and who knows, we might even get a discussion going.

the point I'm making is banning things that includes a women's attire that didn't cover her face is taking it to the extreme and comes across as targeting all people of the Muslim faith.

It's no more 'extreme' than the choice wearing of such attire instead of, say, a one piece swimsuit that's been the standard of modesty-preserving swimwear in Europe for decades. But inasmuch as that's a personal choice of the wearer, as opposed to a coerced outcome, no issue from me.

 

Now, repeat after me, just to make sure you get it (because it seems that you are cognitively impaired, after repeating Burkini-related arguments to me time and again): "L00b does not agree with the Burkini ban".

 

Beyond that: like it or not, it's the law of the land, as decided by its elected representatives.

 

If you disagree with the law, organise rallies, petitions and lobby your municipal council, your député (MP) <etc.> to have it repealed. Or vote in a different elected representative next time. That's how democracy works.

 

If you choose to flaunt the law by way of protest, don't be surprised when you get charged under it.

 

If you break the law by accident/unintentionally, it's still your fault I'm afraid. No-one can plead ignorance of the law by way of defence in France.

 

And hostile/terrorist action might be the way of anti-legislative protest in the Middle East and other territories, but historically it's not in Europe.

Like I mentioned before I'm no fan of the burka but singling out innocent Muslims is not the answer.

Indeed it's not.

 

But that woman was not innocent, she transgressed the local law.

 

You can argue that's a technicality by way of answer, but it's the current finding of the enforcing authority, until and unless a higher authority (expectedly, a Court) says otherwise.

 

For the rest, refer to the above.

How many of the terrorist attacks in France were carried out under the disguise of a burka?

I've already answered that exact same question. Edited August 26, 2016 by L00b

Interesting article with a different viewpoint= http://theconversation.com/banning-the-burqa-is-not-the-answer-to-fears-about-public-safety-31628

 

I agree that some people will disagree that banning the burqa will make any difference to national security. I'm not particularly sure that it does either without there being any empirical evidence to call for either side of the argument.

 

I feel it is important to highlight however that calls to ban the burqa in Western and non muslim majority countries aren't necessarily knee jerk reactions or thinly veiled (pardon the pun) islamophobia.

 

In Chad, where 54% of people are Muslim, the Prime Minister Kalzeube Pahimi Deubet called the burqa 'camouflage' and said all burqas seen on sale would be burnt. This is not just a western idea.

People who spout anti Muslim rhetoric and vilify Muslims day in day out help turn people to violent extremism.

Does banning the burka or the non face covering burkini increase security or does it put the people banning it at more risk?

Chanting we are Catholics here while a women is forced to take off garments on a beach while receiving a fine does get moderate Muslims back up but we are not going to start turning into terrorists like you are insinuating.

Banning items of clothing like the non face covering burkini is being intolerant so don't twist it round onto me.

 

You warn that attacks on Muslim beliefs and practices will put people 'at more risk'... funny how attacks on a people's way of life can provoke a negative response isn't it?

 

There is indeed growing anti-Muslim rhetoric and sentiment and it has been (deliberately) provoked by Islamic extremists. If Muslims and non-Muslims living in the West are to avoid the growing division spiralling out of control then the vicious circle needs to be broken where this all started... with the Islamic extremists. Muslims need to take a long hard look at their religion and ask themselves how they can reform beliefs and practices to prevent so many embracing extremism. The fact that so few Muslim even acknowledge a need to reform their religion, and act so angrily to criticism and challenge, does not exactly fill me with hope.

You warn that attacks on Muslim beliefs and practices will put people 'at more risk'... funny how attacks on a people's way of life can provoke a negative response isn't it?

 

There is indeed growing anti-Muslim rhetoric and sentiment and it has been (deliberately) provoked by Islamic extremists. If Muslims and non-Muslims living in the West are to avoid the growing division spiralling out of control then the vicious circle needs to be broken where this all started... with the Islamic extremists. Muslims need to take a long hard look at their religion and ask themselves how they can reform beliefs and practices to prevent so many embracing extremism. The fact that so few Muslim even acknowledge a need to reform their religion, and act so angrily to criticism and challenge, does not exactly fill me with hope.

 

I'm not warning I'm pointing out where it will lead to, banning things has the effect of alienating innocent people.

The religion is not at fault it is the interpretation of it by some hence why they are called extremists.

You keep spouting about the religion needs reforming but to be honest that is a bit rich coming from a bigot who regularly spouts religious hatred on this forum.

People like yourself are part of the problem yet you come on here like you are somebody we Muslims should listen to telling us to reform our religion!

Get your own house in order first, stop tarring all Muslims with the extremist brush and maybe if you engage in respectful dialogue we stand a chance of getting somewhere.

We can bring our kids up to know right from wrong but but if society has people like yourself constantly spouting religious hatred then it's hard to predict how people will react and unfortunately some turn towards extremism.

This is not exclusive to Muslims, right wing racists/racists are the same.

I know someone who joined the BNP/edl because he got beat up by a load of Asian lads.

Your hate filled rhetoric is actually a good recruiting Sargent for extremists seeking to recruit members.

The Burkini ban has been suspended by France's highest court.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37198479

The Burkini ban has been suspended by France's highest court.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37198479

Colour me entirely unsurprised. It's substantially incompatible with the tenets of the 5-years old ban, there is no security angle to it.

The Burkini ban has been suspended by France's highest court.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37198479

 

 

.... still almost.

 

One of the 30+ bans has been suspended, pending a final decision.

It is likely that that such a decision will affect all the other bans as well.

I'm not warning I'm pointing out where it will lead to, banning things has the effect of alienating innocent people.

The religion is not at fault it is the interpretation of it by some hence why they are called extremists.

You keep spouting about the religion needs reforming but to be honest that is a bit rich coming from a bigot who regularly spouts religious hatred on this forum.

People like yourself are part of the problem yet you come on here like you are somebody we Muslims should listen to telling us to reform our religion!

Get your own house in order first, stop tarring all Muslims with the extremist brush and maybe if you engage in respectful dialogue we stand a chance of getting somewhere.

We can bring our kids up to know right from wrong but but if society has people like yourself constantly spouting religious hatred then it's hard to predict how people will react and unfortunately some turn towards extremism.

This is not exclusive to Muslims, right wing racists/racists are the same.

I know someone who joined the BNP/edl because he got beat up by a load of Asian lads.

Your hate filled rhetoric is actually a good recruiting Sargent for extremists seeking to recruit members.

 

Well said Mafya- gold star response.

 

People like Zamo live in glass houses and think they can continue to spout their bigotry and feel it's ok.

Well said Mafya- gold star response.

 

People like Zamo live in glass houses and think they can continue to spout their bigotry and feel it's ok.

 

Here is an interesting interview with Adam Deen who is a Muslim and a self confessed former Islamic extremist. He doesn't agree with you or Mafya... is he a bigot spouting religious hatred too?

 

People like you and Mafya have no counter argument to legitimate criticism of Islam and the failure of Muslims to tackle intolerance, discrimination and extremism. You instead resort to shouting 'bigot, 'racist' and 'religion hater' (don't have to justify yourselves to those sort of people eh?) and try to shut down the debate.

 

The truth is we all know Sharia encourages and enforces discrimination that British laws seek to prevent. If it didn't then why would Muslims object to calls for all arbitration service providers (both voluntary and professional) to be subject to regulation in order to control standards and conduct? We need to end religious immunity from laws and controls that non-religious individuals, groups and organisations are subject to. It is a call for true religious freedom where we are all treated the same, subject to the same laws and controls, regardless of religious choice. How anyone can claim that wanting equality of treatment by the State is bigotry is beyond me.

 

The Burkini ban has been suspended by France's highest court.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37198479

 

 

I read that someone from the UN has made a statement welcoming the decision and saying it was 'a line in the sand'. Maybe it is but I am afraid it is a line that is going to be crossed because, whilst the ban was certainly an example of intolerance, growing intolerance is inevitable and ultimately unstoppable by the courts. The root cause of the intolerance is increasing provocation by Islamic extremists and the intolerance will not abate until that does.

My bold=

I don't do sharia courts and neither did my brother who got divorced in a British court.

Your attempted put down failed...

I wasn't trying to put you down. I was trying to understand what you actually believe. If you are against so called Sharia courts you shouldn't be defending them instead of the good United Kingdom legal system that does the same things better and more fairly.

 

There is no need for so called Sharia courts in Britain and if you are against them you can say so.

 

Jukes x

 

---------- Post added 30-08-2016 at 11:21 ----------

 

I hope that you will find this article interesting. It discusses the current government review of Sharia in the UK which many of us expect to make the path clear to Islamification of British Law and an increase in inequality.

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/pragna-patel-gita-sahgal/whitewashing-sharia-councils-in-uk

 

 

This talk by Pragna Patel explains why using Sharia instead of British Law in Britain is a bad thing.

 

 

Jukes x