Respect for the Irish-the men that build Britain.

Because I wanted an outdoor job which involved daily exercise instead of sitting on my arse in some office fantasizing over the office girls and knowing that my fantasies were probably 95 percent unattainable

 

---------- Post added 31-01-2015 at 19:53 ----------

 

 

The sad part about history is that we can never change it

Then your post about Brits not wanting the jobs is untrue, I've yet to see a job that the Brits didn't want, be it sewage work or office.

The articles relate to the railway navvies of the Victorian era and not to Canal navvies of two generations earlier to which I referred to.

 

None of your "Irish surnames" are Irish in origin. They are the surnames of those who came and dispossessed the native Irish of their land.

Their names originate from Lowland Scotland, England or Norman/English.

 

These settlers' descendants were of Ulster and the Pale. They were craftsmen, farmers, soldiers etc. who became the lawmakers, landowners, voters and rulers. They suffered much, much less than their dispossessed neighbours when times were hard.

You will also find that their are two very different types of migrants - the poor and dispossessed -Catholic (once Gaelic speaking) with native Irish surnames - the educated urban-mainly from the cities, protestant Ulster and the Pale with Scots/Norman/English surnames. Simply put -the working and the lower middle class.

A lower middle class of Irish who have a history of abuse towards the Kerryman (encouraged by the British Government)and yet wish to share their story.

 

 

1881 census Sheffield, frequency

SMITH, TAYLOR, WILSON, WALKER, WARD, JACKSON, SHAW, BROWN, THOMPSON, HILL, ROBINSON, TURNER, WRIGHT, WHITE, GREEN, PARKIN, WOOD, JOHNSON, HARRISON, HALL, MARSHALL, LEE, ROBERTS, BOOTH,

BARKER, COOPER, ALLEN, WEBSTER, RODGERS, JONES, GREGORY, ELLIS, RTON, FOX, MARTIN, HOBSON, MARSDEN, BELL, WILKINSON, HAGUE, GILL

PARKER, NICHOLSON, MIDDLETON, WATSON, WRAGG, FLETCHER, HOLMES, HUDSON, FOSTER.

Are you saying that if a name is originally from a certain country then that is what you are?

Because if so then Gerrard, Gascoyne and Le Tissier are French but regard themselves as English.

Moore, Finney and Rooney are Irish but regard themselves as English.

Of the names you have referred to above Ward, Shaw, Lee, Rodgers, Fox, Martin and Middleton are commonplace in Ireland.

My own surname is either Scots or French, I am neither being Anglo-Irish.

And obviously surnames only tell half the story mothers are at least as important in deciding someones identity.

And where would you place Gerry Adams in your list? Adams is not an Irish surname.

I mentioned my mothers name previously it is neither an O' nor a Mac but it is indisputably Irish, specifically from Clare and everyone on here has heard the name, and I doubt anyone connects it with Ireland.

There has been too much movement and intermingling over hundreds of years to be able to look at someones surname and assume their identity.

As for railways I didn't realise we were only referring to canals.

is any one ENGLISH any more.

Why does every one decide that my mother was this my father was that and so that makes me this.

Time for the English to stand up and be counted.

The greatest race that ever lived ,a race that invented any thing worth inventing except how to build roads , and that skill belongs to the Romans.

is any one ENGLISH any more.

Why does every one decide that my mother was this my father was that and so that makes me this.

Time for the English to stand up and be counted.

The greatest race that ever lived ,a race that invented any thing worth inventing except how to build roads , and that skill belongs to the Romans.

Nothing wrong with being English I'm half of one myself.

There's no doubt we/they're an inventive people, but I have to say you're pushing it a little with inventing anything worth inventing, no need to over egg the pudding, it doesn't need it, quite impressive enough as it stands.

And not trying to be pedantic, but the English aren't a race.

Then your post about Brits not wanting the jobs is untrue, I've yet to see a job that the Brits didn't want, be it sewage work or office.

As I remember the building company I worked for those many years ago most of the lads were Irish. There were also a couple of lads from Glasgow, a lad from Wales who was my mate and two Polish guys who had come over to fight for Britain during WW2 and then stayed on in England afterwards

I don't remember any of my English mates wanting to labour on a building site. They went for apprenticeships, machinists, tool makers, sheet metal workers. They were prepared to take the low pay while they learned the trade. I on the other hand had no desire to work in a factory and live with the low pay that apprentices earned for a few years until they became journeymen.

I had loftier ambitions. The ambition to own a brand new motorcycle, a few sharp looking suits in the closet and a bit of money to throw around on the girls

I was also expecting to be called up for National Service sometime between 18 and 20 and was actually looking forward to the chance of seeing a bit of the world while doing service. I wanted to be physically fit and maybe volunteer for the Paras if the opportunity arose

I'm not saying that there were no Brits in the building trade. I'm sure there were but why was it that there were so many Irish in that particular trade?

Any British born lad could have gone down to the foreman's office and if there openings for laborers started off shoveling dirt, mixing concrete and carrying bricks up a scaffold.

There were no signs saying "English need not apply"

As I remember the building company I worked for those many years ago most of the lads were Irish. There were also a couple of lads from Glasgow, a lad from Wales who was my mate and two Polish guys who had come over to fight for Britain during WW2

 

I don't remember any of my English mates wanting to labour on a building site. They went for apprenticeships, machinists, tool makers, sheet metal workers. They were prepared to take the low pay while they learned the trade. I on the other hand had no desire to work in a factory and live with the low pay that apprentices earned for a few years until they became journeymen.

 

I had loftier ambitions. The ambition to own a brand new motorcycle, a few sharp looking suits in the closet and a bit of money to throw around on the girls

I was also expecting to be called up for National Service sometime between 18 and 20 and was actually looking forward to the chance of seeing a bit of the world while doing service.

 

I'm not saying that there were no Brits in the building trade. I'm sure there were but why was it that there were so many Irish in that particular trade?

Any British born lad could have gone down to the foreman's office and if there openings for laborers started off shoveling dirt, mixing concrete and carrying bricks up a scaffold.

There were no signs saying "English need not apply"

Because you can't.

I did, as did plenty of other British.

Because you can't.

 

I did, as did plenty of other British.

Then you also deserve the respect for being a member of the workforce which provided new housing for so many who needed decent housing

Respect too for the high percentage of Irish nurses who staffed many of our English Hospitals in the 50s and 60s and were highly regarded.

Slightly off topic but as this thread is about the Irish I just thought I'd mention it.

Respect too for the high percentage of Irish nurses who staffed many of our English Hospitals in the 50s and 60s and were highly regarded.

 

Slightly off topic but as this thread is about the Irish I just thought I'd mention it.

Fair point, in those days it seemed as though the Irish were either labourers, domestic servants or Doctors and nurses.

Now they tend to be IT experts, engineering graduates, accountants or teachers, judging by my family at least.

Still got two nurses and two roofers as well, plus two farmers so hanging in there with the old traditions.

Fair point, in those days it seemed as though the Irish were either labourers, domestic servants or Doctors and nurses.

 

Now they tend to be IT experts, engineering graduates, accountants or teachers, judging by my family at least.

 

Still got two nurses and two roofers as well, plus two farmers so hanging in there with the old traditions.

I think I may have disappointed them a little, unfortunately.

Are you saying that if a name is originally from a certain country then that is what you are?

No. I am saying that the surnames that you used are not originally Irish.

Also because of Irish history and segregation they are associated with the occupation and control of Ireland over a thousand years. All Irish surnames have an anglicised versions very few Anglo Norman surnames have, until recently Gaelic forms.

The Anglo/Norma Irish developed their own minority culture over hundreds of years to the extent that there were many Protestants prominent in the rebellions.

Eight out of the ten most common Irish surnames 4 (Welsh/Breton/foreigner) and 5 originate from an individuals family or tribal areas of the native Irish.

1 Murphy

2 (O')Kelly

3 (O')Sullivan

4 Walsh

5 Smith

6 O'Brien

7 (O')Byrne

8 (O')Ryan

9 O'Connor

10 O'Neill

It is from this pool that the "labourers" came.

Because if so then Gerrard, Gascoyne and Le Tissier are French but regard themselves as English.

 

Moore, Finney and Rooney are Irish but regard themselves as English.

 

Of the names you have referred to above Ward, Shaw, Lee, Rodgers, Fox, Martin and Middleton are commonplace in Ireland.

 

My own surname is either Scots or French, I am neither being Anglo-Irish.

 

And obviously surnames only tell half the story mothers are at least as important in deciding someones identity.

 

And where would you place Gerry Adams in your list? Adams is not an Irish surname.

 

I mentioned my mothers name previously it is neither an O' nor a Mac but it is indisputably Irish, specifically from Clare and everyone on here has heard the name, and I doubt anyone connects it with Ireland.

 

There has been too much movement and intermingling over hundreds of years to be able to look at someones surname and assume their identity.

The point you make is obvious. But as with all genealogy there are different versions and multiple origins of the same surname.

In these islands only the Anglo Normans had legally recorded surnames.

Irish, Welsh and Scots would have had to adopt English style surnames so tracing a family surname in the Celtic lands is very different to tracing an Anglo Norman one.

As for railways I didn't realise we were only referring to canals.

That's OK

Because you can't.

 

I did, as did plenty of other British.

I worked on hundreds of sites in Sheffield and the majority were always English.

1958 onwards anyway.