How far will the rise of nationalistic populism go ?

I'm not sure that's evidence of anything at all.

Putin has far too much form, to be granted any benefit of the doubt.

Are there any candidates in this election who have not met Putin?

Are there any other candidates in this election who both met Putin and visited Trump tower (-in the past 2 months)?

 

Open your eyes.

 

Or keep them shut if you wish, after all it's still a free country, and your full prerogative to swallow all the hooks going.

Putin has far too much form, to be granted any benefit of the doubt.

Are there any other candidates in this election who both met Putin and visited Trump tower (-in the past 2 months)?

 

Open your eyes.

 

Or keep them shut if you wish, after all it's still a free country, and your full prerogative to swallow all the hooks going.

 

I was asking for evidence that Le Pen was a threat to democracy in France. You've not offered any.

I was asking for evidence that Le Pen was a threat to democracy in France. You've not offered any.

I need to refresh your selective memory a bit, it seems

 

When you initially asked:

You clearly have to be a nationalist to be in the FN. You have to be anti-immigration obviously. Do you have to be authoritarian to the point where you reject democracy?

I first invited you to read up about the Vichy régime to understand the FN better, then take a look at their recent mayoral experience/record in Hayange and Béziers.

 

Have you done so? Clearly not.

 

Spoon feeding time, then. Start with this, which addresses your question bang-on-the-nose, in a neutral and clinical fashion. Better make a cuppa, it's a long one. I have plenty more where that one came from.

I need to refresh your selective memory a bit, it seems

 

When you initially asked:

I first invited you to read up about the Vichy régime to understand the FN better, then take a look at their recent mayoral experience/record in Hayange and Béziers.

 

Have you done so? Clearly not.

 

Spoon feeding time, then. Start with this, which addresses your question bang-on-the-nose, in a neutral and clinical fashion. Better make a cuppa, it's a long one. I have plenty more where that one came from.

 

Read it. Basically says that some of their supporters are anti-democratic, but not the party itself. I could level far harsher criticisms against people like the UAF or Momentum, not to mention some student organisations.

Edited March 24, 2017 by unbeliever

Read it. Basically says that some of their supporters are anti-democratic, but not the party itself.

Up to your usual hand-waving standards when the narrative doesn't fit your worldview, I see. Plus ça change. Yawn.

 

Have some more LOLZ! instead, then

Edited March 24, 2017 by L00b

Up to your usual hand-waving standards, I see. Plus ça change. Yawn.

 

In the meantime, have some more LOLZ!

 

I really don't like Le Pen. I believe I made that quite clear.

I just don't think the label "fascist" is reasonable. It should be reserved for, you know, fascists. Not random bigots and certainly not anybody who questions open-door immigration.

I really don't like Le Pen. I believe I made that quite clear.

I just don't think the label "fascist" is reasonable. It should be reserved for, you know, fascists.

And neo fascists, if you don't mind.

 

You know, the fascists of old getting with the times and buying themselves a voter-friendly PR face with other people's money

Not random bigots and certainly not anybody who questions open-door immigration.

What about the non-random bigots who demonstrably do so for bigoted reasons? They fair game?

 

Have you actually read the FN's manifestos and Le Pen's less publicised speeches? It goes a fair bit beyond questioning, or even criticising, "open-door immigration", you know.

 

National preference (across the board), bloodline rights trumping territorial rights, outlawing unionising, outlawing public demonstrations, outlawing dual nationality, prioritising Catholicism over all other religions, press & media controls <...it's a long list, which would make even the barest of liberally-minded faint>

 

But sure, they're not fascists, no.

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by L00b

And neo fascists, if you don't mind.

 

You know, the fascists of old getting with the times and buying themselves a voter-friendly PR face with other people's money

What about the non-random bigots who demonstrably do so for bigoted reasons? They fair game?

 

Have you actually read the FN's manifestos and Le Pen's less publicised speeches? It goes a fair bit beyond questioning, or even criticising, "open-door immigration", you know.

 

National preference (across the board), bloodline rights trumping territorial rights, outlawing unionising, outlawing public demonstrations, outlawing dual nationality, prioritising Catholicism over all other religions, press & media controls <...it's a long list, which would make even the barest of liberally-minded faint>

 

But sure, they're not fascists, no.

 

 

Now that's a bit more like it. If this is what they're up to then they are indeed fascists.

And neo fascists, if you don't mind.

 

You know, the fascists of old getting with the times and buying themselves a voter-friendly PR face with other people's money

 

What about the non-random bigots who demonstrably do so for National preference (across the board), bloodline rights trumping territorial rights, outlawing unionising, outlawing public demonstrations, outlawing dual nationality, prioritising Catholicism over all other religions, press & media controlsbigoted reasons? They fair game?

 

Have you actually read the FN's manifestos and Le Pen's less publicised speeches? It goes a fair bit beyond questioning, or even criticising, "open-door immigration", you know.

 

<...it's a long list, which would make even the barest of liberally-minded faint>

 

But sure, they're not fascists, no.

 

 

Sadly, there are more than a few British voters who would be in favour of some of that, particularly the first one. In fact they`d think you strange for not agreeing with it. And these are otherwise decent people, not nasty hard core racists. Not that there are actually many of the latter about, in fact I don`t think I know any.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Justin Smith

Thanks for the updates L00b. I'd like to know more about European politics but our UK news is pretty parochial and we only get snippets here and there.

 

Has Juppe said why he's not running?

Thanks for the updates L00b. I'd like to know more about European politics but our UK news is pretty parochial and we only get snippets here and there.

There's a lot more than European politics which UK news is pretty parochial about (and if only that was the only crime which one could indict them on), but well...bygones.

Has Juppe said why he's not running?

Right after losing the conservative primaries to Fillon, and since, he's consistently said (before the Fillon scandals surfaced) that he wouldn't want run as the right's second-best choice or 'spare wheel'.

 

Understandable.

 

But then, since the Fillon scandals have taken a strong hold, his close entourage has been quoted a few times, by several respected journalists, as saying that he stood ready to fill in Fillon's shoes, so that the right would have a more credible contender than Fillon and Marine.

 

He's still got time, even though he's not run the first televised debate. As with everything, ain't over 'til it's over.

 

Then again, he'll still be of age to run the next one in 5 years' time, and may be thinking it best to let Macron overpromise/underdeliver and break his young teeth against 'the system', and end up doing a Hollande

Edited March 27, 2017 by L00b

I would agree that UK media coverage has been abysmal for all the time we've been in it, in more than just the accepted theme of "Oh it's all the fault of Murdoch and the Daily Mail".

 

I think it's a cultural thing. The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate. The big people decide things and once we were in the EEC as was, there was no point bothering to inform the public of anything as we were never going to leave anyway. So when we came to an (unexpected) referendum we were possibly the worst informed electorate ever.

 

Anyway re the Presidential election I would agree that Macron looks the most likely so far, but it's hard to judge how he may do given the times we are living in.