tzijlstra   11 #541 Posted June 29, 2016 Didn't the Jobbik party from Hungary had/have MEPs as well as support at home? They are currently the third largest party with 20% of the vote in Hungary, well known for incredibly anti semitic and anti Roma views. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/24/jobbik-impossible-close-british-borders-bigotry  Perhaps, even then I don't expect the two combined to have more than a 1% vote in the EU parliament.  Don't forget that most EU governments adopted proportional representation, meaning that everybody has a vote. I for one am all for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
runningman1   12 #542 Posted June 29, 2016 When Blair invaded Iraq UKIP were smaller than the BNP. Only invaded because it's full of brown people?  Get back to me when you have something sensible to say.  It is sensible.  We would not have invaded Afghanistan based on 9/11 if the country was white. We did not invade Ireland after all.  We invaded Iraq based on a lie, do you really think we would have done that had the population been white?  The western world can stomach dark skinned people dying in their millions, it can't stomach white people dying.  The size of UKIP is not relevant when discussing their attitudes. They are expressly anti-interventionist whereas Labour are demonstrably pro - interventionalist Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tzijlstra   11 #543 Posted June 29, 2016 It is sensible. We would not have invaded Afghanistan based on 9/11 if the country was white. We did not invade Ireland after all.  We invaded Iraq based on a lie, do you really think we would have done that had the population been white?  The western world can stomach dark skinned people dying in their millions, it can't stomach white people dying.  The size of UKIP is not relevant when discussing their attitudes. They are expressly anti-interventionist whereas Labour are demonstrably pro - interventionalist  .....  The bold bit.... I don't think you have a scooby what you are talking about, and I am not English or Irish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Mister M   1,575 #544 Posted June 29, 2016 It is sensible. We would not have invaded Afghanistan based on 9/11 if the country was white. We did not invade Ireland after all.  We invaded Iraq based on a lie, do you really think we would have done that had the population been white?  The western world can stomach dark skinned people dying in their millions, it can't stomach white people dying.  The size of UKIP is not relevant when discussing their attitudes. They are expressly anti-interventionist whereas Labour are demonstrably pro - interventionalist  So UKIP have demonstrated their anti racist credentials by disagreeing with the stance taken by both major parties with regards to recent wars, who you say only invaded other countries on the basis of the colour of people's skin? But wouldn't that defeat UKIP's unique selling point to their supporters? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
runningman1   12 #545 Posted June 29, 2016 ..... The bold bit.... I don't think you have a scooby what you are talking about, and I am not English or Irish.  Should have made that clearer, I meant in response to IRA aggression in the 80's and 90s.  ---------- Post added 29-06-2016 at 23:05 ----------  But now that the referendum is over, their reason for existing has gone. What now for UKIP? I think Labour and the Tories are rooted in a political tradition that goes much deeper than outrage over the EU, or the angst about political correctness and the smoking ban. What should their next rallying cry be?  The United Kingdom is not yet "independent", as we are still in the EU, it will be a gradual process. Labour did not cease to be when they won hard fought rights for workers.  So UKIP have demonstrated their anti racist credentials by disagreeing with the stance taken by both major parties with regards to recent wars, who you say only invaded other countries on the basis of the colour of people's skin? But wouldn't that defeat UKIP's unique selling point to their supporters?  I have not claimed they are anti-racist, just that I don't see much evidence for them being racist, especially relative to our other political parties.  May I ask if you think that the colour of the skin of the native people influenced the decision to invade both/either Iraq and Afghanistan? If the same set of circumstances arose but against a "white country" do you think the same outcome would occur. Say, for instance, we got a dossier that alleged Sweden had weapons of mass destruction, would we invade and kill over 1 million of their people? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tzijlstra   11 #546 Posted June 29, 2016 Should have made that clearer, I meant in response to IRA aggression in the 80's and 90s.  I'm sorry, but that simply isn't true. I know a number of men that were stationed in NI and between them they covered the 80's, 90's and 2000's. The UK has/had a permanent active army presence in Northern Ireland almost as long as it has had in Germany, if not longer. It might not appear like an invasion to you, as you are English, but I am fairly sure that the last time I was in Belfast the murals said something different. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Radan   10 #547 Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) It is sensible. We would not have invaded Afghanistan based on 9/11 if the country was white. We did not invade Ireland after all.  We invaded Iraq based on a lie, do you really think we would have done that had the population been white?  The western world can stomach dark skinned people dying in their millions, it can't stomach white people dying.  The size of UKIP is not relevant when discussing their attitudes. They are expressly anti-interventionist whereas Labour are demonstrably pro - interventionalist  Uh huh.....like we stomached Sierra Leone you mean?  Before you move the goalposts to Muslims I will say, and Bosnia then?  Sorry Citizen Smith, you don't know what you are talking about. Edited June 29, 2016 by Radan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
runningman1   12 #548 Posted June 29, 2016 I'm sorry, but that simply isn't true. I know a number of men that were stationed in NI and between them they covered the 80's, 90's and 2000's. The UK has/had a permanent active army presence in Northern Ireland almost as long as it has had in Germany, if not longer. It might not appear like an invasion to you, as you are English, but I am fairly sure that the last time I was in Belfast the murals said something different.   I am Irish and English, a family member died on black Sunday (I never met them as I am too young). I know all to well the horror of the British occupation of Ireland. I have been to Belfast a number of times and, as you will know, other murals say the opposite. I however am a unionist.  This does not change the fact that we did not invade Ireland in the 80's or 90s as a response to Irish terrorism.  ---------- Post added 30-06-2016 at 00:12 ----------  Uh huh.....like we stomached Sierra Leone you mean? Before you move the goalposts to Muslims I will say, and Bosnia then?  Sorry Citizen Smith, you don't know what you are talking about.  But we stomach countless wars even cause many of them, famine and disease that we could stop.  Moreover neither of these two were really invasions, more like peace keeping forces.  My main point stands, and I shall ask you. Do uou think we would have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan on the flimsy pretexts we did, had they been populated by white people? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
projection   10 #549 Posted June 29, 2016 How do we have the points immigration system what is being talked about and wanted by many and the reason many voted out for, with regards to accepting freedom of movement by being in the single market? do they try and negotiate putting a limit on people coming here from the EU if they haven't got the skills we need? how would our government qualify that negotiation to appease the people who voted out because of the offer of a points based immigration system? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Radan   10 #550 Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) I am Irish and English, a family member died on black Sunday (I never met them as I am too young). I know all to well the horror of the British occupation of Ireland. I have been to Belfast a number of times and, as you will know, other murals say the opposite. I however am a unionist. This does not change the fact that we did not invade Ireland in the 80's or 90s as a response to Irish terrorism.  ---------- Post added 30-06-2016 at 00:12 ----------   But we stomach countless wars even cause many of them, famine and disease that we could stop.  Moreover neither of these two were really invasions, more like peace keeping forces.  My main point stands, and I shall ask you. Do uou think we would have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan on the flimsy pretexts we did, had they been populated by white people?  Would they (Iraq) still have oil?  Do you mean Bloody Sunday? Edited June 29, 2016 by Radan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
monkey104 Â Â 10 #551 Posted June 30, 2016 I think the whole issue of immigration is problematic for UKIP, partly because of the stance they take - which is at best disingenuous. Farage repeatedly complained in the campaign that it is not fair that immigrants form the rest of the world were 'discriminated against' over EU migrants (French, Germans, Belgians etc.) Â Because in spite of the fact that he didn't specify Muslims, as you have done above, (though his now notorious poster which featured hordes of people fleeing war torn Syria had a taint of dog whistle politics about it). Does Nigel Farage really believe it is not fair that immigrants form the rest of the world were 'discriminated against' over EU migrants? Or is he actually saying 'we don't want any of them. But because we don't want to sound like we're little Englanders, we'll dress up our loathing of the EU as a concern about immigrants' from, say, South Asia? Â I think that now UKIP have served their purpose, which was to lead the country towards an EU referendum, they are dead in the water. I voted out because for a long time I believed that the Eu was a white elephant,and had become to politically involved with its member countries. I thank UKIP for the chance to votes however, not for one minute do I see Farage as any sort of leader for this country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Radan   10 #552 Posted July 1, 2016 The question is do we need immigrants more that they need us?  Ask the NHS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...