Where is your God?

yes but they don't know God do they ?

Which god?

---------- Post added 31-08-2014 at 07:15 ----------

Tithing is optional although its scriptural !!!

So is rendering unto Caesar.

Decompostion of the mortal body but what happens to your soul?

Ah:- soul! (Pun intended.)

First demonstrate that souls exist, then we can discuss that.

You get the (truth) propaganda about what christians believe which is what you went for

FIFY

---------- Post added 31-08-2014 at 07:29 ----------

When I was doing a mature students course on 20th century a few years ago, i studied that period of Fascist Germany with much interest, read quite a lot about the subject and talked to a Jewish family I'd kept in touch with since childhood. I'd lived in Germany for a brief period some years before too, so that experience added to the curiosity.

I always found it hard understand how so many people could have allowed themselves to be so fooled by Hitler, I have better insight now though.

Appeal to authority!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Such an overworked logical fallacy!

I realise this subject doesn't really connect with what's been discussed previously on the thread, but it was Redwhine, not me, who took the thread off course this time.

You brought up the subject of atrocities. I merely asked for examples.

---------- Post added 31-08-2014 at 07:48 ----------

Perhaps it would be better to not class him as either theist or atheist.

Atheist is a privative. It includes everybody outside the set of "theist" (...as denoted by the prefix "a").

Are you really claiming that Hitler was not human?

---------- Post added 31-08-2014 at 08:03 ----------

This is why I always try to stress to you that there is no uniform Christianity: all Christians believe differently - and very few agree with each other when it comes to social issues, values, dogma and theology(they have no uniform concept of God).

There are over 40,000 different versions of christianity according to Wiki...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

"Note: This is not a complete list, but aims to provide a comprehensible overview of the diversity among denominations of Christianity. As there are reported to be approximately 41,000 Christian denominations (figure includes overlap between countries),[3] many of which cannot be verified to be significant, only those denominations with Wikipedia articles will be listed in order to ensure that all entries on this list are notable and verifiable."

Rubbish!

 

"We don't (yet) know", is a far better explanation than made up excrement.

 

You don't know, either.

 

Your god is the god of the gap(s); a placeholder until the actual facts are discovered (if ever).

Rubbish?

It is all guess work as any scientist would tell you- nothing wrong with that but please spare me the ' we don't know yet'.

Adios from me.. been there done it before.

That is just faith- nothing more! Science will never know the origins of the Universe (3 planck secs before the big bang etc) as it is and was not observable.

Saying an intelligent force, (call it what you wish) is more likely than 'it just happened by itself'.

There is no doubt that science provides many good things , and will continue to do so , but it will never be able to answer the Ultimate Question .

I still use my logic and intuition that from nothing, nothing comes.

Rubbish?

It is all guess work as any scientist would tell you- nothing wrong with that but please spare me the ' we don't know yet'.

 

Adios from me.. been there done it before.

What's wrong with admitting we don't know yet?

Why is it better to believe in something irrational rather than just accept we don't know?

That is just faith- nothing more! Science will never know the origins of the Universe (3 planck secs before the big bang etc) as it is and was not observable.

Unless, of course, we discover a new method of observation which does make it observable. Then we might know.

Saying an intelligent force, (call it what you wish) is more likely than 'it just happened by itself'.

Would you mind sharing your calculations of that probability with us?

When coming to this conclusion did you take into consideration that it's a false dichotomy?

There is no doubt that science provides many good things , and will continue to do so , but it will never be able to answer the Ultimate Question .

I still use my logic and intuition that from nothing, nothing comes.

Everyone has faith in a particular saint? There are people who believe in Buddhism, there are people who have strong faith in God.,,,, And I believe in a miracle of life .........

Might it be that everyone believes in " Their God " and that somehow , In whatever venture they embark upon , " God" is on their side.

All of those historical morons who cry " In the name of God " , do so because they "pervertedly" believe that it gives them some moral credence or superior reasoning over those whom they wish to demise or subjugate . That ,I would suggest , also applies to those who wish to denigrate other individuals for their belief.

No God , whichever religion you would quote, advocates one human being committing the atrocities to which they subject one another.

Someone asked previously " How it is that all other species of animals have managed to survive on this planet over millions of years , whilst humans have evolved over " thousands " of years "? Maybe the question should be "How have humans managed to survive over these thousands of years , when the animal kingdom has has evolved over the millions of years "?

I would suggest that GOD only knows !

At this juncture I would quote a notorious puritan , " Everyone claims that God is on his side , I wonder that God ask's who is on his side "?

It appears that human beings will go on committing atrocity's , or claiming their superior knowledge over what is right or wrong .

Is It out of sheer arrogance ?

Everyone has faith in a particular saint?

Is that a question or a statement?

---------- Post added 31-08-2014 at 20:36 ----------

Might it be that everyone believes in " Their God " and that somehow , In whatever venture they embark upon , " God" is on their side.

All of those historical morons who cry " In the name of God " , do so because they "pervertedly" believe that it gives them some moral credence or superior reasoning over those whom they wish to demise or subjugate . That ,I would suggest , also applies to those who wish to denigrate other individuals for their belief.

No God , whichever religion you would quote, advocates one human being committing the atrocities to which they subject one another.

Someone asked previously " How it is that all other species of animals have managed to survive on this planet over millions of years , whilst humans have evolved over " thousands " of years "? Maybe the question should be "How have humans managed to survive over these thousands of years , when the animal kingdom has has evolved over the millions of years "?

I would suggest that GOD only knows !

At this juncture I would quote a notorious puritan , " Everyone claims that God is on his side , I wonder that God ask's who is on his side "?

It appears that human beings will go on committing atrocity's , or claiming their superior knowledge over what is right or wrong .

Is It out of sheer arrogance ?

No, not at all

 

This is why I always try to stress to you that there is no uniform Christianity: all Christians believe differently - and very few agree with each other when it comes to social issues, values, dogma and theology(they have no uniform concept of God).

There can't be too much uniformity because people are all different, and come from all walks of life.

Religion may play a significant part in a persons life but their environment and general life experiences will also be a factor in shaping their views. They may also change some fixed ideas they have after a period of reflection, like many people do as they mature.

 

Appeal to authority!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

Such an overworked logical fallacy!

 

There are over 40,000 different versions of christianity according to Wiki...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

 

"Note: This is not a complete list, but aims to provide a comprehensible overview of the diversity among denominations of Christianity. As there are reported to be approximately 41,000 Christian denominations (figure includes overlap between countries),[3] many of which cannot be verified to be significant, only those denominations with Wikipedia articles will be listed in order to ensure that all entries on this list are notable and verifiable."

 

I only mentioned that because Rydoe would have been aware from another thread that I'd watched the documentary about Hitler that was referred to, so I just chose to say that I had studied the subject in more detail at some level to emphasise that it wasn't a topic I had little knowledge about and had just been introduced to.

So they're are so many Christian religions in the world so what, why shouldn't there be? each to their own I say. Some of the mainstream religions here in some churches have alternative forms of worship to suit those who prefer the traditional, or progressive.

Yes but you don't need to stress that to me I was aware of that already.

The reason I try and stress that Janie is because so many Christians hear "Christian [insert criticism here]" and think it's an attack on them or their religion - so they go on a knee-jerk defensive(I get that impression from you). I hope you understand criticism of Christianity isn't necessarily criticism of your Christian beliefs or variant of. Because Christianity is so subjective, it makes it difficult to criticise without hurting the feelings of those who practise the more liberal and tolerant variants of Christianity. And that's not something I enjoy doing. I just think if you can discuss comments and criticism of religion from a different angle, it's doesn't have to turn into a silly us vs them fight.

What's wrong with admitting we don't know yet?

Why is it better to believe in something irrational rather than just accept we don't know?

 

Unless, of course, we discover a new method of observation which does make it observable. Then we might know.

 

 

Would you mind sharing your calculations of that probability with us?

When coming to this conclusion did you take into consideration that it's a false dichotomy?

 

...you hope

 

The logic you've displayed already in this post doesn't appear to have been very sound.

Logic can be used to make inferences to the best decision.

Also I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with 'we don't know' answer- but it is down faith at the end of the day.

As stated before, science has no tool to look in to anything it cannot or did not observe! Going back to my mention of Dark Matter- it has no scientific foundations, zero.

It may be down the years the ultimate question could end being answered as the origin of the Universe was by Purpose- it is one of the 4 options that do exist today, the others being Chance, Randomness and Probability- but even if one tried to prove any of these, it stills leaves open the question of the First Cause- as everything that begins to exist needs a cause.

I will leave it there as these type of discussions (as much as I love) are not appropriate on a thread- though feel free to PM me if you have some burning issues.

Which god?

 

---------- Post added 31-08-2014 at 07:15 ----------

 

So is rendering unto Caesar.

 

 

Ah:- soul! (Pun intended.)

 

First demonstrate that souls exist, then we can discuss that.

 

 

FIFY

 

---------- Post added 31-08-2014 at 07:29 ----------

 

Appeal to authority!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

Such an overworked logical fallacy!

 

The Hebrew term for “soul” is nephesh and it is found more than 780 times in the Old Testament. Because of the variety of contextual meanings, it is not always rendered by the English word “soul.” The King James Version uses 28 different words by which to translate the original term. Nephesh, therefore, signifies different things, depending upon the passage in which it occurs.

 

Similarly, in the Greek New Testament, the original word for “soul” is psuche, found 103 times. Our modern word “psychology” derives from this Greek term.

 

Here are some uses of “soul” in the Scriptures.

 

“Soul” may signify merely an individual person. The prophet Ezekiel declared that the “soul” (i.e., the person) who sins will surely die (Ezek. 18:20), or, as Peter would write centuries later, “eight souls” were saved by water in the days of Noah (1 Pet. 3:20). See also Exodus 1:5.

 

In some contexts, “soul” simply has reference to biological life, the animating principle that is common to both humans and animals. All creatures have “life” (see Gen. 1:30; cf. ASV footnote). The wicked king, Herod the Great, sought to take the “life” of baby Jesus (Mt. 2:20; cf. Rev. 12:11). In one of the visions of the Apocalypse, certain creatures of the sea were said to possess psuche, or life (Rev. 8:9).

“Soul” can have to do with that aspect of man that is characterized by the intellectual and emotional (Gen. 27:25; Job 30:16). It is the eternal component of man that is fashioned in the very image of God (Gen. 1:26), and that can exist apart from the physical body (Mt. 10:28; Rev. 6:9).

In the Old Testament, “spirit” is ruach, found some 378 times in the Hebrew Old Testament, and literally meaning “breath,” “wind,” etc. The corresponding Greek term is pneuma, occurring 379 times in the New Testament (the original form being found in our English word, pneumonia). Again, though, as with “soul,” the word “spirit” may take on different senses, depending upon its contextual setting.

I think we give unto ceaser in many ways , Council tax , car tax , etc

The reason I try and stress that Janie is because so many Christians hear "Christian [insert criticism here]" and think it's an attack on them or their religion - so they go on a knee-jerk defensive (I get that impression from you) . I hope you understand criticism of Christianity isn't necessarily criticism of your Christian beliefs or variant of. Because Christianity is so subjective, it makes it difficult to criticise without hurting the feelings of those who practise the more liberal and tolerant variants of Christianity. And that's not something I enjoy doing. I just think if you can discuss comments and criticism of religion from a different angle, it's doesn't have to turn into a silly us vs them fight.

But yes I do try to understand that the criticism isn't "an attack on them or their religion" even though that isn't always so clearly apparent with internet communication. And I too can be conscious that I may have said something that has hurt somebody's feelings when I criticise someone for saying something I disagree with, but if we avoided responding to other peoples comments for that reason all the time, we would never say anything.

Which god?

 

---------- Post added 31-08-2014 at 07:15 ----------

 

So is rendering unto Caesar.

 

 

Ah:- soul! (Pun intended.)

 

First demonstrate that souls exist, then we can discuss that.

 

 

FIFY

 

---------- Post added 31-08-2014 at 07:29 ----------

 

Appeal to authority!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

Such an overworked logical fallacy!

 

The Hebrew term for “soul” is nephesh and it is found more than 780 times in the Old Testament. Because of the variety of contextual meanings, it is not always rendered by the English word “soul.” The King James Version uses 28 different words by which to translate the original term. Nephesh, therefore, signifies different things, depending upon the passage in which it occurs.

 

Similarly, in the Greek New Testament, the original word for “soul” is psuche, found 103 times. Our modern word “psychology” derives from this Greek term.

 

Here are some uses of “soul” in the Scriptures.

 

“Soul” may signify merely an individual person. The prophet Ezekiel declared that the “soul” (i.e., the person) who sins will surely die (Ezek. 18:20), or, as Peter would write centuries later, “eight souls” were saved by water in the days of Noah (1 Pet. 3:20). See also Exodus 1:5.

 

In some contexts, “soul” simply has reference to biological life, the animating principle that is common to both humans and animals. All creatures have “life” (see Gen. 1:30; cf. ASV footnote). The wicked king, Herod the Great, sought to take the “life” of baby Jesus (Mt. 2:20; cf. Rev. 12:11). In one of the visions of the Apocalypse, certain creatures of the sea were said to possess psuche, or life (Rev. 8:9).

“Soul” can have to do with that aspect of man that is characterized by the intellectual and emotional (Gen. 27:25; Job 30:16). It is the eternal component of man that is fashioned in the very image of God (Gen. 1:26), and that can exist apart from the physical body (Mt. 10:28; Rev. 6:9).

In the Old Testament, “spirit” is ruach, found some 378 times in the Hebrew Old Testament, and literally meaning “breath,” “wind,” etc. The corresponding Greek term is pneuma, occurring 379 times in the New Testament (the original form being found in our English word, pneumonia). Again, though, as with “soul,” the word “spirit” may take on different senses, depending upon its contextual setting.

I think we give unto ceaser in many ways , Council tax , car tax , etc

How does quoting from scriptures prove we have a soul? no proof whatsoever.

Rubbish?

Yes. Rubbish.

It is all guess work as any scientist would tell you- nothing wrong with that but please spare me the ' we don't know yet'.

Where is the guess in "we don't know yet"? It's a factual statement.

Adios from me.. been there done it before.

Bye. You obviously have nothing of any value to contribute to this discussion, so you won't be missed.

That is just faith- nothing more! Science will never know the origins of the Universe (3 planck secs before the big bang etc) as it is and was not observable.

Is it the word "yet" that you object to?

'We don't know yet' is just as factual a statement as 'we don't know' (...as is 'we may never know').

No faith required.

Saying an intelligent force, (call it what you wish) is more likely than 'it just happened by itself'.

You obviously know nothing about probability theory too.

There is no doubt that science provides many good things , and will continue to do so , but it will may never be able to answer the Ultimate Question .

FIFY

I still use my logic and intuition that from nothing, nothing comes.

So were did the intelligent force come from? (This intelligent force;- "Saying an intelligent force, (call it what you wish) is more likely than 'it just happened by itself'.")

:hihi::hihi: