Have Clegg and the Lib Dems screwed up this week over Europe?

Since Cameron refused to sign up to the new European Treaty on Monday, Clegg has been leading the chorus of Lib-Dems refuseniks.

Last night there was a mass vote abstention in Parliament by the Lib-Dems when the DUP moved to support the PM.

Are the Lib-Dems right to go against Cameron's decision?

Liberals are total sellout appeasers, how can people vote for such a spineless group of nomarks?

Are the Lib-Dems right to go against Cameron's decision?

Of course they are if that is what they believe - isn't that what democracy is all about?

IMHO, they screwed up majorly - both politically and in their (expected) requirement to act in the nation's best interest. But then again, it is the LibDems we are talking about

Are the Lib-Dems right to go against Cameron's decision?

It was clear as day Sarkozy and Merkel wanted the hide of the City...doing their own "repatriating" (of financial boon) to Paris and Frankfurt's trading quarters. And clear as muck what the UK would surrender further, by agreeing (as the latest news are now starting to highlight).

On a political basis, they don't have a choice.

After Clegg's too high-profile dissent, they either toe the party line laid down by Clegg en masse (as they did), or don't and a new Party leader would be required. Toeing the party line is less damaging for the Coalition than a glaring disconnect between the Deputy PM and his MPs, so QED. Clegg was quite laughable in his recent party speech, about 'not wanting to provoke a new general election'. Of course he doesn't: with Cameron on the high he's currently at, and Clegg and Milliband's current ratings, it'd be a walkthrough for the Tories!

EDIT - to echo a point I made this morning in the other EU-car-crash thread, I wouldn't be the least surprised if Clegg had hopes (like other EU premiers on Friday/Saturday) that Cameron would quickly backtrack on his NO (IF he said no) and, as a consequence, lose a lot of political pull (to Clegg's benefit). If that's the case, it's backfiring quite badly, innit?

Can't wait for PMQs today, should be a good'un

Meh, I still vote Lib Dem in local and National elections. Better them that old numpty boy Cameron and his Merchant Banker cronies.

Liberals are total sellout appeasers, how can people vote for such a spineless group of nomarks?

I do wonder what they are doing. If they were to pull out of the coalition they have alienated so many people that they would face electoral annihilation. Clegg himself would probably lose his seat to a tory.

I think it is a classic catch 22 situation and one that has strengthened Camerons position and gained him respect from the electorate.

I do wonder what they are doing. If they were to pull out of the coalition they have alienated so many people that they would face electoral annihilation. Clegg himself would probably lose his seat to a tory.

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You don’t need a crystal ball to see that coming ………….. I can wait.

Another utterly pointless poll because it'll be a foregone conclusion knowing some of the idiotic posters/comments on these forums.

Another utterly pointless poll because it'll be a foregone conclusion knowing some of the idiotic posters/comments on these forums.

You could stop posting, that'd stop the vast majority of posts like those you describe.

You could stop posting, that'd stop the vast majority of posts like those you describe.

Likewise I'm sure. Besides, why would I want to do that? What you mean is why you can't have an easier life and get away with things?

Another utterly pointless poll because it'll be a foregone conclusion knowing some of the idiotic posters/comments on these forums.

Mecky, you're talking out loud again...

The other day I was in a queue at the supermarket and was thinking about something which had recently happened. I thought to myself "Oh God!" but I must have said it out loud/under my breath because the person in front of me turned around and tried to give me some verbal but I resisted and couldn't be bothered to argue (They nearly learned how to fly through a shop window theough). What's wrong with people to make them feel so insecure or even paranoid? And it wasn't just that person either, I've noticed loats of such occurrences over the years.

Besides, why would I want to do that?

Somewhat more susbtantial than yet another "VAT Man and Speer and Boy Blunder" ad hominem attack (yawn)?

In your opinion, Mecky, why was Cameron wrong to threaten a veto (he hasn't actually used it, btw)?

In your opinion, Mecky, can the LibDem's position be defended?

I'm genuinely interested. Yes, really.