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09-01-2017, 09:54   #1
1bigbhudda
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how selfish of the striking underground " workers" sorry that should be the unions wanting to give the establishment a slap? what about the normal working man who is going to suffer with these strikes.
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09-01-2017, 10:43   #2
sgtkate
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Striker workers are not paid for the days they are off, so they believe strongly enough in what they are doing to lose a days pay. As I'm not a tube train driver I can't say if I would strike if I was in their shoes or not.

As for the 'normal working man' line, has the 'normal working man' (clearly women don't work?) thought about why the tube workers are striking?
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09-01-2017, 10:46   #3
Bonzo77
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All those reptilian Londoners are going to have to see daylight for a change!

Good luck to the strikers! People power!
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09-01-2017, 10:52   #4
unbeliever
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Whilst I feel sorry for the London commuters today, I find myself laughing at the misfortune of Sadiq Khan. He's been mocking, lecturing and patronising the government for weeks over the strikes on Southern (which is not under the control of the government) and now has an all but identical strike of his own to deal with (which is under the control of the London mayor).
He even went so far as to suggest that he should take control of Southern as these kinds of problem would never happen to him.
I do not think that so much egg has ever being simultaneously dumped onto a single face in human history.

---------- Post added 09-01-2017 at 10:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzo77 View Post
All those reptilian Londoners are going to have to see daylight for a change!

Good luck to the strikers! People power!
What the actual ...!
The strikers are Londoners. You refer to them as reptilian in one breath and wish them luck and power in the next.
Did you fall out of bed this morning and hit your head?
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09-01-2017, 10:57   #5
tinfoilhat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzo77 View Post
All those reptilian Londoners are going to have to see daylight for a change!

Good luck to the strikers! People power!
It's against ticket office closures apparently. Millions of people have had their lives disrupted and looking at the pictures London it looks a right mess. I'd hate to try and get across London at the best of times but this is something else. They'll cave in very quickly and the strikers know it - they've got the city, rich and poor alike over a barrel.
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09-01-2017, 11:00   #6
Supertramp
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Originally Posted by tinfoilhat View Post
It's against ticket office closures apparently. Millions of people have had their lives disrupted and looking at the pictures London it looks a right mess. I'd hate to try and get across London at the best of times but this is something else. They'll cave in very quickly and the strikers know it - they've got the city, rich and poor alike over a barrel.
Yeah but why do they want to keep 'non-jobs'? Who uses ticket offices now when you can just use your contactless card/Apple Pay/Android Pay or Oyster card if you don't have a contactless card.
And there are ticket machines all over the place.
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09-01-2017, 11:01   #7
geared
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Barely anyone uses the ticket offices now though.

It's only really the ones at the large stations as they see quite a few tourists who are not familiar with the underground and need assistance.
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09-01-2017, 11:09   #8
1bigbhudda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtkate View Post
Striker workers are not paid for the days they are off, so they believe strongly enough in what they are doing to lose a days pay. As I'm not a tube train driver I can't say if I would strike if I was in their shoes or not.

As for the 'normal working man' line, has the 'normal working man' (clearly women don't work?) thought about why the tube workers are striking?
so what if they are not paid? they actually are paid very well considering what they do,what about all the other workers men and women !! who cant get into their job or are late due to these selfish bleep bleeps. the ticket offices are so inconsequential nowadays in the modern world.

---------- Post added 09-01-2017 at 11:11 ----------

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Originally Posted by Bonzo77 View Post
All those reptilian Londoners are going to have to see daylight for a change!

Good luck to the strikers! People power!
Nice!!! is that just some or all Londoners? alas people power or "power to the people" al la wolfie smith as you probably prefer is long gone what are you going to do when the underground becomes fully automated?
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09-01-2017, 11:22   #9
sgtkate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bigbhudda View Post
so what if they are not paid? they actually are paid very well considering what they do,what about all the other workers men and women !! who cant get into their job or are late due to these selfish bleep bleeps. the ticket offices are so inconsequential nowadays in the modern world
So what if they aren't paid? Well, most people go to work to earn money, so losing a days pay isn't something most of us would just do on a whim is it? Therefore they must have thought at least a little bit about is it worth me losing a days pay over and come up with the answer 'YES!'. So clearly to the strikers there is a reason to do this and even if the answer is pay, well then that's their lookout.

People saying they have London over a barrel, well yes indeed they do, so perhaps they should be paid and treated like a bloody important resource, same as the police, NHS etc. It's only a train driver, it's only a nurse, it's only a...well suddenly the it's only a lot have a lot more power and good. About time.

It is rubbish for the Londoners trying to get to work etc today, and they do have my sympathy that they've been caught in the middle, same as the Southern trains commuters, but the anger should almost always be targeted at the employers not the workers. To strike means all other avenues to get a problem resolved have failed. Unions are FAR from perfect, they need problems and disagreements to keep themselves going sadly, I am aware of this, but I'm struggling to think of any case where the employer isn't mostly at fault. This particular case might be different, as I actually kinda agree with TFL and the closure of the ticket offices!

If TFL absolute believe they are in the right, then they should press on with closure of the ticket offices and try to deal with the strikes as best they can. Strike fail very quickly without public support or at least public antipathy and if TFL are seen to be doing the right thing and the union is simply trying it on then the strike will fail.

Last edited by sgtkate; 09-01-2017 at 11:24.
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09-01-2017, 11:25   #10
unbeliever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtkate View Post
So what if they aren't paid? Well, most people go to work to earn money, so losing a days pay isn't something most of us would just do on a whim is it? Therefore they must have thought at least a little bit about is it worth me losing a days pay over and come up with the answer 'YES!'. So clearly to the strikers there is a reason to do this and even if the answer is pay, well then that's their lookout.

People saying they have London over a barrel, well yes indeed they do, so perhaps they should be paid and treated like a bloody important resource, same as the police, NHS etc. It's only a train driver, it's only a nurse, it's only a...well suddenly the it's only a lot have a lot more power and good. About time.

It is rubbish for the Londoners trying to get to work etc today, and they do have my sympathy that they've been caught in the middle, same as the Southern trains commuters, but the anger should almost always be targeted at the employers not the workers. To strike means all other avenues to get a problem resolved have failed. Unions are FAR from perfect, they need problems and disagreements to keep themselves going sadly, I am aware of this.

If TFL absolute believe they are in the right, then they should press on with closure of the ticket offices and try to deal with the strikes as best they can. Strike fail very quickly without public support or at least public antipathy and if TFL are seen to be doing the right thing and the union is simply trying it on then the strike will fail.

The right of employers to sack striking workers should be restored. As should their right to bring in replacement staff to cover strikes days (for when they don't want to go that far).
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09-01-2017, 11:32   #11
1bigbhudda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtkate View Post
So what if they aren't paid? Well, most people go to work to earn money, so losing a days pay isn't something most of us would just do on a whim is it? Therefore they must have thought at least a little bit about is it worth me losing a days pay over and come up with the answer 'YES!'. So clearly to the strikers there is a reason to do this and even if the answer is pay, well then that's their lookout.

People saying they have London over a barrel, well yes indeed they do, so perhaps they should be paid and treated like a bloody important resource, same as the police, NHS etc. It's only a train driver, it's only a nurse, it's only a...well suddenly the it's only a lot have a lot more power and good. About time.

It is rubbish for the Londoners trying to get to work etc today, and they do have my sympathy that they've been caught in the middle, same as the Southern trains commuters, but the anger should almost always be targeted at the employers not the workers. To strike means all other avenues to get a problem resolved have failed. Unions are FAR from perfect, they need problems and disagreements to keep themselves going sadly, I am aware of this, but I'm struggling to think of any case where the employer isn't mostly at fault. This particular case might be different, as I actually kinda agree with TFL and the closure of the ticket offices!

If TFL absolute believe they are in the right, then they should press on with closure of the ticket offices and try to deal with the strikes as best they can. Strike fail very quickly without public support or at least public antipathy and if TFL are seen to be doing the right thing and the union is simply trying it on then the strike will fail.

really?? its the unions calling the shots and the majority of the workforce dont have much of a choice, its just another way to bash the bosses and people that work in the city.
i doubt they will get much sympathy for their cause now an maybe thats a lesson to unions and strike supporters? it doesnt work long term....miners anyone?
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09-01-2017, 11:32   #12
tinfoilhat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supertramp View Post
Yeah but why do they want to keep 'non-jobs'? Who uses ticket offices now when you can just use your contactless card/Apple Pay/Android Pay or Oyster card if you don't have a contactless card.
And there are ticket machines all over the place.
You know that, the mayor knows that but the union won't want their members losing their jobs. This is the result.
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09-01-2017, 11:33   #13
Robin-H
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Are the strikers not receiving 'strike pay' from their Union?

The Southern Rail Union were paying the train conductors 300 a week to strike.
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09-01-2017, 11:37   #14
tinfoilhat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtkate View Post
So what if they aren't paid? Well, most people go to work to earn money, so losing a days pay isn't something most of us would just do on a whim is it? Therefore they must have thought at least a little bit about is it worth me losing a days pay over and come up with the answer 'YES!'. So clearly to the strikers there is a reason to do this and even if the answer is pay, well then that's their lookout.

People saying they have London over a barrel, well yes indeed they do, so perhaps they should be paid and treated like a bloody important resource, same as the police, NHS etc. It's only a train driver, it's only a nurse, it's only a...well suddenly the it's only a lot have a lot more power and good. About time.

It is rubbish for the Londoners trying to get to work etc today, and they do have my sympathy that they've been caught in the middle, same as the Southern trains commuters, but the anger should almost always be targeted at the employers not the workers. To strike means all other avenues to get a problem resolved have failed. Unions are FAR from perfect, they need problems and disagreements to keep themselves going sadly, I am aware of this, but I'm struggling to think of any case where the employer isn't mostly at fault. This particular case might be different, as I actually kinda agree with TFL and the closure of the ticket offices!

If TFL absolute believe they are in the right, then they should press on with closure of the ticket offices and try to deal with the strikes as best they can. Strike fail very quickly without public support or at least public antipathy and if TFL are seen to be doing the right thing and the union is simply trying it on then the strike will fail.
The salary of a tube driver is 49k.

The salary of a ticket office worker, to the best of my knowledge is 29k. I'd wager those who sell tickets at theatres or cinemas don't get paid that much and may also have to lose a days pay or holiday because they can't get to work. The reason why they don't get paid that much is because they can't disrupt as much as the tube workers can.
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09-01-2017, 11:39   #15
geared
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtkate View Post
People saying they have London over a barrel, well yes indeed they do, so perhaps they should be paid and treated like a bloody important resource,
Aren't tube drivers paid like 60k or something?

---------- Post added 09-01-2017 at 11:40 ----------

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Originally Posted by tinfoilhat View Post
The starting salary of a tube driver is 49k.
The starting salary of a police man is under 20k, I know which job I'd rather do.
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09-01-2017, 11:41   #16
Robin-H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geared View Post
Aren't tube drivers paid like 60k or something?
The starting salary is 49,673. It goes up to 50,000 - 60,000 after a few years (for a 36 hour week).

---------- Post added 09-01-2017 at 11:43 ----------

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Originally Posted by geared View Post
Aren't tube drivers paid like 60k or something?

---------- Post added 09-01-2017 at 11:40 ----------



The starting salary of a police man is under 20k, I know which job I'd rather do.
Transport for London doesn't advertise tube driver vacancies to the public due to a deal with the trade unions which means that jobs are advertised internally first.
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09-01-2017, 11:44   #17
horribleblob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supertramp View Post
Yeah but why do they want to keep 'non-jobs'? Who uses ticket offices now when you can just use your contactless card/Apple Pay/Android Pay or Oyster card if you don't have a contactless card.
And there are ticket machines all over the place.
My understanding is that it's not about ticket offices per se, but safe staffing levels. Closing ticket offices will reduce the number of staff available in an emergency, such as the 1987 Kings Cross fire. If ticket offices are closed but safe staffing levels maintained, then I don't see a problem. However, I'm not yet convinced that will be the case.
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09-01-2017, 11:46   #18
Gamston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinfoilhat View Post
The salary of a tube driver is 49k.

The salary of a ticket office worker, to the best of my knowledge is 29k. I'd wager those who sell tickets at theatres or cinemas don't get paid that much and may also have to lose a days pay or holiday because they can't get to work. The reason why they don't get paid that much is because they can't disrupt as much as the tube workers can.
You've hit the nail on the head.
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09-01-2017, 11:47   #19
unbeliever
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Quote:
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My understanding is that it's not about ticket offices per se, but safe staffing levels. Closing ticket offices will reduce the number of staff available in an emergency, such as the 1987 Kings Cross fire. If ticket offices are closed but safe staffing levels maintained, then I don't see a problem. However, I'm not yet convinced that will be the case.
So basically as long as the number of people employed at each station (and therefore paying union dues), and presumably the pay of those people, is not reduced, then the union will judge the stations "safe".
Basically a protection racket.
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09-01-2017, 11:48   #20
El Cid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bigbhudda View Post
how selfish of the striking underground " workers" sorry that should be the unions wanting to give the establishment a slap? what about the normal working man who is going to suffer with these strikes.
I believe withdrawing your labour is a human right.
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