Potentially complex party wall

We are hoping to have a small to moderate kitchen extension that will reach up to a boundary wall. This is actually a garden wall, and on the other side is a yard that appears to have been unused for as long as we have lived in the house (around 5 years). The yard is attached to a building that appears to be a detached house, now converted into 2 or 3 separate flats.

We assume that we will have to serve party wall notifications, even though it's a garden wall and the "garden" is unused. However, we are unsure to whom we need to serve them - would this be to all the individual flats in the building? We are also unsure whether the flats are rented or owner occupied, or whether the building is freehold or leasehold. Is there any easy way of finding out?

We really don't want to end up spending money we have saved for building the extension on ridiculous legal fees, so if there's a straightforward solution to this, we would be very happy......

Have you looked on the land registry to see what documents they hold?

There might be one freehold covering the building and grounds with all the flats on leasehold, or maybe one of the ground floor flats owns the garden?

Have you looked on the land registry to see what documents they hold?

 

There might be one freehold covering the building and grounds with all the flats on leasehold, or maybe one of the ground floor flats owns the garden?

Can individuals access land registry data or would this need to be done by a solicitor?

The land registry services can be accessed through the gov.uk government website. It does cost a small fee for the title plan and to find out who owns the property, but anyone with an email address and bank card can use it.

The land registry services can be accessed through the gov.uk government website. It does cost a small fee for the title plan and to find out who owns the property, but anyone with an email address and bank card can use it.

Thank you, that's very useful.

The land registry services can be accessed through the gov.uk government website. It does cost a small fee for the title plan and to find out who owns the property, but anyone with an email address and bank card can use it.

Here's the link: https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

Take care not to use non-official (but official-looking) alternatives!

Have you looked on the land registry to see what documents they hold?

 

There might be one freehold covering the building and grounds with all the flats on leasehold, or maybe one of the ground floor flats owns the garden?

Right, the free land registry search (having not yet paid to access any actual names) seems to show that there are 3 separate flats in the building, each listed with both leasehold and freehold documents.

Assuming that the ground floor flat also owns the garden, could anyone tell me whether we would need to notify BOTH the leaseholder AND the freeholder of works within 3m of their garden wall? Would we then need to get the explicit consent of both before the work could progress?

My concern would be that the freeholder in particular might not have much interest in bothering to respond to the notice. Is there anything compelling them to do so?

The flats might have a management company which is responsible for the yard (and other common areas); if so, that should smooth the process for you.

It's probably worth just knocking on doors and asking the flat tenants if they know what the deal is. If any are owner-occupiers, you might just be able to find out for free.

Go and knock on the door and speak to them, before you serve the notice, because if they don't reply in 14 days, it will be deemed as dissenting (ie opposing) to the works. They might even tell you who owns the wall, and/or give you an up to date address for the landlord.

I would guess given it's non-structural for them they wouldn't insist on a schedule of condition. I would be happy, with a reasonable neighbour I was on good terms with, to allow them to make alterations to a boundary wall which didn't affect my building, providing they had spoken to me about it. If I were just served with a notice, without a conversation I might ask for a schedule of condition.

A chartered surveyor or architect will be able to help you, and there is advice here:

https://www.gov.uk/party-walls-building-works/reaching-agreement-with-neighbours

Thanks to all who have posted advice so far. Through a combination of door-knocking and land registry searches, we have now confirmed that there is an owner occupied flat and two are rented, all with a joint "ownership" of the garden wall. There is also a freeholder, who may actually be different from the landlord.

Does anyone know if we would be required to serve party wall notices to all these parties separately, or just the occupants, or just the freeholder? It seems crazy that we should have to do all this for an extension that won't even come close to the actual building, and we're not planning to actually do anything to the garden wall either - it's just that the extension would be close to it!

We've had an initial visit from an architect and he didn't know either. Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

If you are not making a change to the party structure itself, then part 6 of the act pertaining to excavations applies.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/40/section/6

---------- Post added 21-01-2017 at 19:53 ----------

And strictly speaking, you should serve notice on on every 'owner' with an interest in the property. That is to say the freeholder, and leaseholders of long leases, but not eg shorthold tenants.

If you are not making a change to the party structure itself, then part 6 of the act pertaining to excavations applies.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/40/section/6

 

---------- Post added 21-01-2017 at 19:53 ----------

 

And strictly speaking, you should serve notice on on every 'owner' with an interest in the property. That is to say the freeholder, and leaseholders of long leases, but not eg shorthold tenants.

Thanks for your response. Starting to think that this is all going to get horribly complicated given that the party structure in question is simply a garden wall neighbouring a yard that is clearly unused.....