National service

Get some in, Get some in Get some in. Advice, don't buy the flashy, leather, hold halls to bring your gear back into the UK. This is a grip.

Haven't heard 'Get some in' in a long time. Your absolutely right about flashing so called expensive bags around though, a little naïve I'm sure, but it did happen, not to me, I didn't have the forethought or the money to do anything like that, I think the only thing that I could rustle up was a couple of photos to show Mom and Dad. But I could see a lot of things happening at a Depot Regt. like that due to the nature of all the human traffic coming and going and there's always people ready to take advantage of certain situations.

Well fleets I guess I'm the same as you. I've been trying to think if I brought anything back worth nicking and I don't think I did. Although I had a Slazenger hold-all and I can't think for the life of me where I bought it. It must've been down Fayid. Whatever, it lasted donkeys years, at least thirty, when it just wore out.

However I did bring a camera, my pride and joy. It was a Baldinetta or perhaps Baldinette 35mm, a German camera and the most expensive one I'd ever had. I got into cameras over there and had a few but I kept trading them in, getting more and more expensive.

I had it for about the last three months of my time in Egypt and it's not as if I didn't know about back dating recipes, but I didn't, and suffered the consequences.

We landed at Stanstead, then a collection of tin huts, went into Customs and Excise where I said I had nothing to declare. They looked at the camera and at me, asked how long I'd had it, I told them 6 months, they said 'Step this way into the shake down room'.

They gave me a going over and found the rangefinder, exposure meter, rolls of film, lens hoods etc; with my weights over the gaiters and confiscated the lot.

Color me green.

Another observation from the old NS days. Probably in the last few months before getting out, I was sent along with a crew to provide communications for a Commando unit at the Gulf of Suez (41 or 43 Marine Commando?). They were great guys and treated us good, one thing I did notice how different their mode of dress was in every facet compared to ours. We felt like renegades from WW11 compared to them, their working fatigues and their dress in general was more up to date with their Khaki being of a different shade and style. All their equipment including vehicles, generators etc. was newer than ours. One thing I did notice, if their job confined them to a vehicle like driving, radio operators etc. they were issued with automatic side arms rather than a cumbersome rifle (could be wrong, I think their rifles were of some automatic design anyway). Our 3ton Commer Command vehicle with its small radio compartment and larger staff office behind that was a definite throw out from the 'big one' and to make matters worse we all had the issued Lee Enfield 303 rifles, not the most convenient after seeing how these Commandoes were equipped. I will just leave you with this bit of trivia though. We were told their automatic pistols were designed to fire 9mm ammunition and that was because there was that much left over after the war and the gun that originally used this type of ammo was the Sten Gun.

The very worst food in the world was served up to us in Bengarzi(north Korea was better) now after two&half yrs we moved to Tripoli were the food was some what better and invited some American's we had met in town back for eats we was quite dismayed when one one of them said you don't mean they make you eat this swill & invited back to there camp (Wheeler's Field) did I say camp it was more like a 6star hotel with food to match I've never seen so much, thought gone to heaven and they got paid to boot you know real money

Was'nt the Sten gun produced to fit the amount of 9m captured from the enemy during WWII .

I was RAOC in Aden late 50s,even then the marines seemed better dressed than us. Being a store man we managed to snaffle a few bits of equipment, but most every thing was ex WWII even the vehicles.

Flyer,your mention of food at American bases reminded me of a time when I was selling books in Germany. A couple of colleagues and myself had managed to get on base and we also got into the PX. Our sponsor, a guy name PFC Quackenbush, (you'd better believe it) said 'just order anything you want' so I asked for a T bone and got one like the side of a house, with the fries and trimmings. Honestly I had never seen anything like it.

I realise this has nothing at all to do with the standards we got used to during National Service, but I just thought I'd mention it.

I've got a question. There must be a number of ex Infantry bods have read this thread and I would like to know if any of them, possibly if they were good shots, had had advanced rifle training. This would be with the .303 Mk4 Lee Enfield. In the Signals we didn't really do a lot of shooting and I didn't hear of anyone who was an exceptional shot and had gone on for any special training. I'm sure there was something of the sort went on though.

I've got a question. There must be a number of ex Infantry bods have read this thread and I would like to know if any of them, possibly if they were good shots, had had advanced rifle training....... .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Irrelevant if you are thinking sniper stuff, Texas, but with the competition coming up to determine the best light ack ack battery in BAOR, 32 Battery's management were desperate to win. All aspects of the unit's function would be tested and getting good marks for shooting with the Bofors gun was top of the list. There was one expert gun layer on the books, an Irish lad who used the 40mm like a shotgun. Unlike earlier weapons, the L60 Bristol Bofors was aimed and fired by one man. Paddy would select single shot rather than automatic, squint through the reflector sight and bang off one at a time instead of 120 a minute. He was a natural, the Boss thought that good rifle shots might also be useful.

So whether they were cooks or clerks, signallers or GD men, any one who had a good score at the annual small arms classification shoot was to be trained as a gun layer just for the LAA competition. With Marksman rating on No. 4 Enfield, Bren & Sten , I was one of them, though you needed a bit of luck to get a good score. With only 42 rounds of 0.303 allowance for each man once a year, we were hardly well practiced.

The chosen sweated for hours at Gun Drill, not just laying instruction, but, sadly we had no chance to fire the Bofors as the rules demanded that only full time layers could compete. The Battery won the Cup, though. The aerial targets were sleeves towed behind Mosquitos. Paddy did his stuff. The average through out the competition was one hit for every 70 rounds. Paddy.on single shot until the top brass stopped him doing it, brought 32 Battery's score down to one hit for 40 rounds.

Thanks for the interesting feedback, cartav. What I had in mind though was technique with the .303 Lee Enfield. At Catterick, in the Signals, It was strictly basic, first on the 30 yard range then extended up to a 1000 I think it was, although I know that the Lee Enfield was effective up to 3000 yards. To shoot we just gripped the bolt with thumb and forefinger, and put a round into the breech, then dropped the hand to the trigger and applied the forefinger once again to the trigger to fire. Simple. I watched a video a while back whereby the shooter gripped the bolt in the above manner but used the second and third fingers to pull the trigger, hardly moving his hand at all. In this way he fired off ten rounds in just as many seconds. I was well impressed. The shooter stated that he thought this technique had been taught and used by generations of British army personnel.

'Lo Texas ! Thanks for the response........ I gathered you could have been seeking something like that, but my memory was jogged & it was vaguely small arms related ! Hate to be a smart arse though ....... not really true perhaps !!!!!!!...... but I think your figures could be a bit out like :-

I don't think an SMLE could be ranged for 3000 yds & I believe the sights

were set to 1300 yds, even on the more sophisticated rifle with the flip

ups. The L96 Sniper rifle I'm told will guarantee a kill at 600 yds & to get

much better, like the current record shot at around 2 miles you'd need

something like the L115.

60 rounds a minute ? Not on, I think....... A trained soldier might get off

8 to 12 aimed shots with a bolt action No, 4 but not one a second even if

the magazine didn't require filling with two 5 round chargers. I can't recall

what the "Mad Minute" record was, something nearer 30 I'd guess, and the

average infantry lad got off 15, not all aimed, just blasted at an enemy.

,

I guess our Gunner small arms training in NS days was similar to other

non-infantry units and our maximum rifle range was 300 yards for

classification shooting.

Incidentally, if you are familiar with the range at Totley, in days long gone, they fired from a 900 yard point. You can still see where it was, tucked away beyond the cottages in the triangular plot between Baslow Road and Lane Head.

---------- Post added 22-09-2014 at 18:24 ----------

Does anyone have any memories of any of the following: Empire Ken, Empire Fowey, Empire Windrush, or H.M.S Theseus. Troop carriers all, at one time or another

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Only just found this, TEXAS, the second to you today ! Empire Windrush has quite a bit about it on the internet, and, of course, it was the ship that brought over the first West Indian immigrants ( I think !!) If it's the one that caught fire in the Med, I met a lad who was on it at the time. And quite famous after a piece in the Daily Mirror. He was RA, a bombardier, we met in Woolwich barracks. He'd been en route to UK from Egypt,pig sick of daily boat drill which everyone thought was a joke. Then one day the daily call to boat stations came, they shouted back unprintable squaddy language. A smell off smoke & a flash of flame ( he said) had them getting topside jildi.

On the deck the RSM said " Women & Children in the boats, soldiers in the water". Bdr. Smith wasn't having it. "Sir ", he said, "I can't swim !". Swift as a flash the RSM advised "You soon effing learn " & kicked him over the side. ( he said).

The "Mirror" ran the story, Smithy has a well thumbed copy of the article.

Cartav, I think you are right about the rate of fire I mentioned in my original post. I did go a little over the top. A round a second is wild, but the point I was really trying to make was about the technique of shooting. I've watched the said video again and it's still impressive, the shooter getting off rounds quicker than I've ever seen and he's got the big sight up not the battle sight. Regarding the main sight, It did go to 3000 yds. Have a look at the video, there's one or two featuring the .303 on YouTube. Note how the shooter keeps his thumb over the bolt. The rifle in question was one of the finest ever devised, in my own opinion.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Irrelevant if you are thinking sniper stuff, Texas, but with the competition coming up to determine the best light ack ack battery in BAOR, 32 Battery's management were desperate to win. All aspects of the unit's function would be tested and getting good marks for shooting with the Bofors gun was top of the list. There was one expert gun layer on the books, an Irish lad who used the 40mm like a shotgun. Unlike earlier weapons, the L60 Bristol Bofors was aimed and fired by one man. Paddy would select single shot rather than automatic, squint through the reflector sight and bang off one at a time instead of 120 a minute. He was a natural, the Boss thought that good rifle shots might also be useful.

 

So whether they were cooks or clerks, signallers or GD men, any one who had a good score at the annual small arms classification shoot was to be trained as a gun layer just for the LAA competition. With Marksman rating on No. 4 Enfield, Bren & Sten , I was one of them, though you needed a bit of luck to get a good score. With only 42 rounds of 0.303 allowance for each man once a year, we were hardly well practiced.

 

The chosen sweated for hours at Gun Drill, not just laying instruction, but, sadly we had no chance to fire the Bofors as the rules demanded that only full time layers could compete. The Battery won the Cup, though. The aerial targets were sleeves towed behind Mosquitos. Paddy did his stuff. The average through out the competition was one hit for every 70 rounds. Paddy.on single shot until the top brass stopped him doing it, brought 32 Battery's score down to one hit for 40 rounds.

I wonder if this has any relevance to your time in national service in BAOR. I was part of REME light aid detachment Quebec barracks Osnabruk 1952/53

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