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01-01-2007, 12:05   #121
Norbert
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Originally Posted by angle20
The Journal of Historical Review sounds an impressive publication, however Wikipedia notes:

The Journal of Historical Review is a controversial serial, periodical, or journal published by the Institute for Historical Review in Torrance, California. Its subject purported to be history. The journal, in it hay day, engaged in holocaust-denial. It was, and continues to be, designated as an antisemitic publication, in regard to its contents, by the Anti-Defamation League.

The Organization of American Historians had commissioned a study in which a panel had found that the Journal of Historical Review was "nothing but a masquerade of scholarship."

The journal commenced publication in the spring of 1980 as a quarterly periodical. Publication was suspended in 1986-87. The journal is now defunct. However, back issues continue to be distributed and sold by its associated organization, the Noontide Press.
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01-01-2007, 12:07   #122
Halibut
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Originally Posted by Norbert
The Journal of Historical Review sounds an impressive publication, however Wikipedia notes:

The Journal of Historical Review is a controversial serial, periodical, or journal published by the Institute for Historical Review in Torrance, California. Its subject purported to be history. The journal, in it hay day, engaged in holocaust-denial. It was, and continues to be, designated as an antisemitic publication, in regard to its contents, by the Anti-Defamation League.

The Organization of American Historians had commissioned a study in which a panel had found that the Journal of Historical Review was "nothing but a masquerade of scholarship."

The journal commenced publication in the spring of 1980 as a quarterly periodical. Publication was suspended in 1986-87. The journal is now defunct. However, back issues continue to be distributed and sold by its associated organization, the Noontide Press.
No surprises there then. What is it about Jews that you dislike so much angle20?
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01-01-2007, 12:51   #123
Teabag
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Originally Posted by angle20
Irving and Faurisson would be classified as revisionists (to use a less emotionally loaded term than 'denier'), and I haven't quoted anything from Irving in support of arguments I've made, but who's the third one?
To a Nazi sympathiser like yourself, Irving would be seen as a revisionist - to everyone else, including the court in Austria he will be viewed as a denier - that is why he was found guilty and served his sentence.

Irving sued another historian because he refused to be viewed as a holocaust denier. The British court ruled that Irving was indeed a holocuast denier.

Two independent law courts, the academic community and 99.9% of joe public view him rightly as a holocaust denier.

Your views are 'off the radar'
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01-01-2007, 13:35   #124
angle20
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Originally Posted by Martin Dust
Jean-Claude Pressac
Not so. Here's the reply I gave when redrobbo tried to argue this on the Auschwitz thread a little while ago:

Quote:
You imply that Jean-Claude Pressac is a "discredited Holocaust denier". He contributed a chapter to this book:
Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp

Quote:
Newly authoritative information is included in several essays, including one by Jean-Claude Pressac, a French investigator and former Holocaust denier, on the construction of the gas chambers and crematoria
Amazon link re-pasted:

Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp

So, that makes two, not three. If, on the Holocaustian side of the argument, you having difficulty counting to three, that does not augur well for coping with larger numbers, does it?
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01-01-2007, 13:48   #125
angle20
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Originally Posted by Halibut
What is it about Jews that you dislike so much angle20?
You have no evidence for this assertion, Halibut. It would be true to say, on the other hand, that I cast a more sceptical than average eye over the Jewish role in history and current affairs. As there is a strong Jewish influence - through the neoconservative political school - in the government of the world's current superpower this is, I believe, a topic of legitimate public debate.

Incidentally, are you contributions going to continue to consist primarily of one-liner questions, or are you going to share with the forum some of your own views?
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01-01-2007, 13:51   #126
Teabag
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angle20
You have no evidence for this assertion, Halibut. It would be true to say, on the other hand, that I cast a more sceptical than average eye over the Jewish role in history and current affairs. As there is a strong Jewish influence - through the neoconservative political school - in the government of the world's current superpower this is, I believe, a topic of legitimate public debate.

Incidentally, are you contributions going to continue to consist primarily of one-liner questions, or are you going to share with the forum some of your own views?
Why don't you just say that you admire the Nazis and Hitler...why not just tell the truth instead of skirting around the edges.
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01-01-2007, 14:22   #127
Martin Dust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angle20
Not so. Here's the reply I gave when redrobbo tried to argue this on the Auschwitz thread a little while ago:
Wrong, check post 57 on this thread and you'll find the following quote used by yourself:

Quote:
Originally Posted by angle20
"630,000 - the lower end of the range suggested by the leading Holocaustian scholar, Jean-Claude Pressac."
Jean-Claude Pressac's book, AUSCHWITZ: TECHNIQUE AND OPERATION OF THE GAS CHAMBERS (1988, Beate Klarsfeld Foundation) reproduces many German documents. The documents which Pressac considers to be most incriminating are, in the great majority of cases, either "photocopies" or "microfilm copies" made available by the Soviets; many have been retyped by unknown persons and do not even purport to be photocopies; others are obvious forgeries.

That I believe is 3 or would you like to deny that as well?

Last edited by Martin Dust; 01-01-2007 at 14:37.
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01-01-2007, 14:36   #128
Martin Dust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angle20
You have no evidence for this assertion, Halibut. It would be true to say, on the other hand, that I cast a more sceptical than average eye over the Jewish role in history and current affairs. As there is a strong Jewish influence - through the neoconservative political school - in the government of the world's current superpower this is, I believe, a topic of legitimate public debate.
Come on Angle, you can say New World Order and I suppose you believe the Jews are running it...
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01-01-2007, 15:05   #129
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Originally Posted by angle20
Incidentally, are you contributions going to continue to consist primarily of one-liner questions, or are you going to share with the forum some of your own views?
Yes, primarily one-liner questions. My own view is that the Holocaust happened and that those that deny this are Jew haters.
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01-01-2007, 16:04   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angle20
Torture by British soldiers it would seem. Here's one source:

Journal of Historical Review article

The answer to your second question can be found at post no 61 above.
All you said in that post was that Hoess's information was obtained under duress. You never said by whom it had been 'discarded'.
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01-01-2007, 17:32   #131
plekhanov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angle20
I'm just seeking to set the record straight.
And why is it that you seem so obsessed with setting Ďthe record straightí on issues involving Jews?

Quote:
Teabag posed the question: "How about six million historical truths"? As there were quite possibly 'only' 600,000 or so deaths at the largest extermination camp it is rather doubtful that there are "six million historical truths". Similarly, your own assertion (above): "once the figures are up into the millions" is likely to be fallacious. Pay attention in class, plekhanov.
So you deny that millions of people were murdered in the Nazi holocaust? Do you also deny the Armenian holocaust and Rwandan Genocide or is it simply recognised historical episodes of ethnic cleansing and genocide in which Jews were prominent victims that you deny?

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Now, in learning lessons and moving forward it is important to realise that the Holocaust episode is an important moral prop to Jewish thinkers and activists.
So what? Just because the fact that the Nazi holocaust happened is abused by people it doesnít make the Nazi holocaust any less real.

Quote:
It underpins the 'anti-semitic' card they produce if anybody questions their activities. There is strong Jewish influence in the neoconservative political school which currently holds sway over the Republican party and the Bush administration in the USA. One Jewish neoconservative figure (amongst a number who circulate around the well- funded think tanks and lobby groups) is a chap called Michael Ledeen. I recently came across an interesting quote from Ledeen's book War on the Terror Masters. The quote is purportedly about America's attitude to Arab states but I think it might be taken as an interesting insight into Jewish attitudes to other peoples:
This rather neatly highlights what is wrong with your world view and particularly your attitude to Jews; a rightwing academic who happens to be Jewish says some arrogant stuff about the USís role in the Middle East and somehow your addled mind reads it as a confession of collective Jewish attitudes to the whole world

Quote:
Here (for fun) are some Ledeen quotes, courtesy of Wikipedia:
So? If I wanted I could cut and paste a list of objectionable quotes by GW Bush or Condoleeza Rice by your Ďlogicí all white and black Americans would be guilty of sharing those views simply by being in the same ethnic group.

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As Iran might be the next "small crappy little country" to be thrown against the wall one can understand why President Ahmadinejad might have had an interest in hosting a Holocaust conference.
Yeah because Ahmadinejadís anti-Semitism and holocaust denial is really hurting those warmongering against Iran
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01-01-2007, 17:36   #132
Teabag
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Arguing with angle is like trying to argue with David Icke....pointless - too far off the radar
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01-01-2007, 23:54   #133
angle20
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Originally Posted by Teabag
Why don't you just say that you admire the Nazis and Hitler...why not just tell the truth instead of skirting around the edges.
Although I've always taken a keen interest in current affairs I didn't start looking into nationalist political ideas until a couple of years ago. In the process of unravelling the origins of immigration, multiculturalism and the 'racism' concept I stumbled across "the Jewish question". One might describe this as the issue of how an outsider and elite group can be accommodated within a host or neighbouring societies. Though not highlighted in history studies it has been a recurrent topic across the centuries in a large number of countries. It was a salient topic for the Nazis. They addressed it in a way which was clumsy and brutal.
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02-01-2007, 00:03   #134
angle20
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Originally Posted by Martin Dust
That I believe is 3 or would you like to deny that as well?
I'm not quite with the point you are making. Pressac is a former revisionist (the book you refer to is nearly 20 years old) but is now regarded as a Holocaustian. I don't think Gutman, Berenbaum & Gutman would have invited him to contribute an essay to a book they were editing if that were not the case. I rest my case.
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02-01-2007, 00:05   #135
angle20
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Originally Posted by Halibut
Yes, primarily one-liner questions.
I think artisan recently suggested that you be banned on the grounds of being boring. I'd second that!
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02-01-2007, 00:08   #136
Teabag
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Originally Posted by angle20
Although I've always taken a keen interest in current affairs I didn't start looking into nationalist political ideas until a couple of years ago. In the process of unravelling the origins of immigration, multiculturalism and the 'racism' concept I stumbled across "the Jewish question". One might describe this as the issue of how an outsider and elite group can be accommodated within a host or neighbouring societies. Though not highlighted in history studies it has been a recurrent topic across the centuries in a large number of countries. It was a salient topic for the Nazis. They addressed it in a way which was clumsy and brutal.

Funnily enough Adolf Hitler thought the same when residing in Vienna
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02-01-2007, 00:09   #137
angle20
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Originally Posted by happyhippy
You never said by whom it had been 'discarded'.
To spell it out: the official Auschwitz museum (who we might take as being the most independent arbiter in relation to that institution) has obviously ignored the figure involved in the Hoess confession in arriving at its most recent published figures.
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02-01-2007, 00:35   #138
angle20
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Originally Posted by plekhanov
So you deny that millions of people were murdered in the Nazi holocaust? Do you also deny the Armenian holocaust and Rwandan Genocide or is it simply recognised historical episodes of ethnic cleansing and genocide in which Jews were prominent victims that you deny?
I've only looked in any detail at Auschwitz. If you can give an itemised and authenticated broader account I'd be happy to see it.

I know little about the Armenian genocide. However, a recent move by France to introduce 'denial' legislation in respect of it drew some criticism from the European Commission who regarded this as a retrograde step.

In relation to Rwanda I see that four men were arrested in Britain last week. There was an interesting piece in yesterday's Sunday Times:

Quote:
...one member of the Rwandan community in exile said: "There are definitely plenty more suspected war criminals who have come to Britain, seeing it as a safe haven. It was always easy for them to travel through southern Africa, pick up papers and fly to London. They have used all sorts of tricks to hoodwink the Home Office, including false identities and nationalities"....."It is entirely possible that there are other suspected mass killers in Britain we do not know about," said Emmanuel Rukangira, the Rwandan state prosecutor.
Quote:
a rightwing academic who happens to be Jewish says some arrogant stuff about the USís role in the Middle East and somehow your addled mind reads it as a confession of collective Jewish attitudes to the whole world
It's broader than Ledeen. Here's an article if you'd like to look at the issue in more detail:

http://www.theoccidentalquarterly.co...rstandIII.html
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02-01-2007, 00:37   #139
Martin Dust
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Originally Posted by angle20
I'm not quite with the point you are making. Pressac is a former revisionist (the book you refer to is nearly 20 years old) but is now regarded as a Holocaustian. I don't think Gutman, Berenbaum & Gutman would have invited him to contribute an essay to a book they were editing if that were not the case. I rest my case.
Crikey, my point is that mentioned/qouted 3 holocaust deniers, this isn't some kind of challenge in a school yard - it's a fact that anyone who reads the whole thread can see but I can understand the reason for you be defensive.
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