Another vote t'other side of the Border.

Looks like the wee Krankie woman is about to call for another vote on setting Scotland free from their English benefactors now article 50 is about to be served. Although I doubt the EU would want Scotland as a member on it's own. On a personal view I hope Mrs May encourages our Northern friends to have another vote as I am sure it's bound to fail again.

Angel1.

What`s particularly interesting is that Theresa May is not wanting the referendum at the time when it`s actually most sensible for the Scots to have the referendum, assuming they want to stay in the EU, so I hope they tell her where to get off on that one.

But the most significant point is the Tories are saying there`s no wish in Scotland for a second independence referendum. That`s hypocritical in the extreme ! Lets go back to before the last UK General Election. Only 15% of voters put Europe in their top three of concerns, i.e. there was no great wish for an EU referendum in this country. But they had one anyway ! Purely so the Tories could pinch a few percent of votes from the UKIP lot and they could heal the big splits in their own party.

Added 14 March :

Apparently Theresa May is to refuse the Scots having a referendum before Brexit is concluded because it`d be "divisive". GORDON BENNET ! What a SODDIN` hypocrite Theresa May is ! ! Without any doubt the most divisive thing in my lifetime has been the referendum and, critically, her attitude to it afterwards. No concessions to the 48% who voted remain remember, and stretching what even (all) the Remain voters even voted for.

Is it any wonder people have such a low opinion of politicians......

Looks like the wee Krankie woman is about to call for another vote on setting Scotland free from their English benefactors now article 50 is about to be served. Although I doubt the EU would want Scotland as a member on it's own. On a personal view I hope Mrs May encourages our Northern friends to have another vote as I am sure it's bound to fail again.

 

Angel1.

I'm not so sure this time round. Alex salmond promised a oil-based economic utopia which would have died on its arse, but they're very much in favour of the eu which might swing it.

I'm not so sure this time round. Alex salmond promised a oil-based economic utopia which would have died on its arse, but they're very much in favour of the eu which might swing it.

The point is that over the campaign, the percentage in favour of independence was increased significantly. And this time the Scots Nats are starting from a higher percentage than a the start of the last campaign.....

The point is that over the campaign, the percentage in favour of independence was increased significantly. And this time the Scots Nats are starting from a higher percentage than a the start of the last campaign.....

It would be bold to assume that those gains could be repeated in a second campaign.

In my view the SNP have no respect for democracy. You can't just keep holding referenda until you get the result you want. 3 years is hardly a "generation" for such a once in a generation event. If there's another vote then it will be tied at 1-1. A third would be required as a decider.

They're going to have to go for actual independence this time. Last time they were asking for home rule which is not the same thing. Actual independence means full decoupling them. They're not using Sterling and we'll have to agree an register an agreement for market access with the WTO.

Look over all the arguments my remain opponents have made for secession from the EU and quadruple them for secession from the UK.

Still it's their choice. I'm only joking with the best 2 out of 3 thing. If they vote out they must get out. Much more of this and the UK3 will just stand up and say to Scotland "Just go. We've had enough."

It would be bold to assume that those gains could be repeated in a second campaign.

In my view the SNP have no respect for democracy. You can't just keep holding referenda until you get the result you want. 3 years is hardly a "generation" for such a once in a generation event. If there's another vote then it will be tied at 1-1. A third would be required as a decider.

 

 

They're going to have to go for actual independence this time. Last time they were asking for home rule which is not the same thing. Actual independence means full decoupling them. They're not using Sterling and we'll have to agree an register an agreement for market access with the WTO.

Look over all the arguments my remain opponents have made for secession from the EU and quadruple them for secession from the UK.

 

Still it's their choice. I'm only joking with the best 2 out of 3 thing. If they vote out they must get out. Much more of this and the UK3 will just stand up and say to Scotland "Just go. We've had enough."

In fairness, we've had a once in lifetime event that will change the country massively. I don't blame the Scots for wanting another go.

In fairness, we've had a once in lifetime event that will change the country massively. I don't blame the Scots for wanting another go.

That's the justification. But the independence referendum could have been held after the EU referendum in the first place. The EU referendum was already scheduled.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that they should have waited then had one rather than they shouldn't have two.

Here's to hoping Theresa May will nix Sturgeon's call for IndyRef2.

Then the Tories would be finished north of the border for a generation or 3, and Scotland would definitely exit the Union at term

Here's to hoping Sturgeon gets her IndyRef2, and that the Scots won't bottle it again, to finally take their place among the nations of the world

This car crash gets better by the week

It would be bold to assume that those gains could be repeated in a second campaign.

In my view the SNP have no respect for democracy. You can't just keep holding referenda until you get the result you want. 3 years is hardly a "generation" for such a once in a generation event. If there's another vote then it will be tied at 1-1. A third would be required as a decider.

 

 

They're going to have to go for actual independence this time. Last time they were asking for home rule which is not the same thing. Actual independence means full decoupling them. They're not using Sterling and we'll have to agree an register an agreement for market access with the WTO.

Look over all the arguments my remain opponents have made for secession from the EU and quadruple them for secession from the UK.

 

Still it's their choice. I'm only joking with the best 2 out of 3 thing. If they vote out they must get out. Much more of this and the UK3 will just stand up and say to Scotland "Just go. We've had enough."

Respect for Democracy ? Would that apply to the lies and exaggerations of the Leave campaign in the EU referendum ? In some ways I`m looking forward to the declaration of Article 50, I can`t wait to see what the Leave lot will say when so many of their lies (as to what will happen post Brexit*) are revealed for what they are. What`s so sad, and undemocratic in my view, is that it`ll be too late...... It certainly will for the Tory right wing, UKIP , the Daily Mil and the Daily Express.

* "We`ll get a good deal (heavily implying 'no worse than at the moment') because the EU sells more to us than we sell to them", if I had a pound for every time I heard (and continue to hear) Brexiteers saying that I`d be a rich man.

---------- Post added 13-03-2017 at 13:58 ----------

That's the justification. But the independence referendum could have been held after the EU referendum in the first place. The EU referendum was already scheduled.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that they should have waited then had one rather than they shouldn't have two.

Are you talking about the first Scottish referendum ? How could they have done that when there was no prospect of an EU referendum until Cameron very unwisely, and very selfishly (for the Tory party), decided to put one in their manifesto. As you full know there was no strong feeling amongst most (85%) UK voters over the EU.

Respect for Democracy ? Would that apply to the lies and exaggerations of the Leave campaign in the EU referendum ? In some ways I`m looking forward to the declaration of Article 50, I can`t wait to see what the Leave lot will say when so many of their lies (as to what will happen post Brexit) are revealed for what they are. What` so sad, and undemocratic in my view, is that it`ll be too late......

In an ideal world people would not lie. Democracy is designed to operate within the framework of fallibly humanity in which people routinely mislead each other. Remain deceived us too. There's no value or merit in arguing about who was more deceptive (it was remain by the way). Everybody has ample opportunity to point out each others' deceit at the time.

Right now Labour is going around saying that there have been £70bn worth of tax cuts for the rich. Which is nonsense. They never stop telling us that public services receiving more money than lest year have been "cut".

But if they won the next election they'd form that government. That's how it works.

---------- Post added 13-03-2017 at 13:59 ----------

Are you talking about the first Scottish referendum ? How could they have done that when there was no prospect of an EY +U referendum until Cameron very unwisely, and very selfishly (for the Tory party), decided to put one in their manifesto. As you full know there was no strong feeling amongst most (85%) UK voters over the EU.

It was also in their 2010 manifesto. I suppose they (the SNP) couldn't be certain. Okay I'll let them off that one.

Respect for Democracy ? Would that apply to the lies and exaggerations of the Leave campaign in the EU referendum ? In some ways I`m looking forward to the declaration of Article 50, I can`t wait to see what the Leave lot will say when so many of their lies (as to what will happen post Brexit*) are revealed for what they are. What`s so sad, and undemocratic in my view, is that it`ll be too late......

 

* "We`ll get a good deal (heavily implying 'no worse than at the moment') because the EU sells more to us than we sell to them", if I had a pound for every time I heard (and continue to hear) Brexiteers saying that I`d be a rich man.

What lies are those Justin? One bloke on here said his nephew believed the £350 million then regretted voting for brexit, then a while later told us the same anecdote but this time it was his cousin, when this was pointed out to him he said he'd got his nephew and cousin mixed up, haha. Mind you it's easy done so he's probably confused again.

I can't remember who it was, can you?

In an ideal world people would not lie. Democracy is designed to operate within the framework of fallibly humanity in which people routinely mislead each other. Remain deceived us too. There's no value or merit in arguing about who was more deceptive (it was remain by the way). Everybody has ample opportunity to point out each others' deceit at the time.

Oh I don`t agree with that at all, but we shall see over the next 2 to 5 years won`t we ?

As to ample opportunity to point out each others deceit, would that apply to Daily Mail, Daily Express or Sun readers ? Many millions there, yet it was still a close result.